Khalid deserves much more love than Jaheira

[Aasimar069]

Khalid is not very much liked by many Baldur's Gate fans, but beyond his annoying soundset, he has a lot of advantages to be kept in a "Good" party, in fact, much more than Jaheira (we will discuss about that later).

Strength 15 : His main weakness :
This weakness can be solved with the Gloves of Ogre Strength which are obtainable as soon as you can access Baldur's Gate. When you know the game, you can access this aera quite quickly, so the main character's weakness will be fixed mid-game.

Dexterity 16 : Good for a tanky character.
If your main character doesn't need the dexterity book, you can give it to Khalid and then make him a better tank with no need of using the gloves of dexterity.

Constution 17 : Pure gold for a warrior. this is what make this character shine.

Proficiencies : can reach 4 pips in longswords and maybe even 5 in SoD, which make him even more useful. A longsword +2 is quickly obtainable.


Jaheira on the other hand is quite useless. It's main advantage is to be available as your only healer at the beginning of the game.
You should replace her ASAP by Yeslick when you meet him since he's Jaheira with better stats (with no b00bs unfortunately - so that's why this character doesn't get a lot of love).

Yeslick :
- has more strength than Jaheira
- has less dexterity, but that can be fixed with the gloves
- has a better constitution
- has more wisdom (can reach 19 with the 3 books)
- cleric spells are better than druid spells
- can wear the belt of big fists without losing much intelligence since he scores a low 7 by default.

[wendigo211]

I agree that Khalid is the best of the good-alignment martials. Coran's a better archer (due to his illegal stats and proficiencies), but Khalid is better in melee. He has the best combined dex/con values of any of the other good martial NPCs and for any tough fight you should be buffing strength (and everything else) with potions/spells. Once buffed, advanced specialization is a bigger boon than what any of the Ranger or Paladin kits get with BG's level cap.

Even without buffs, he's pretty good in melee. With High Mastery (4 pips) in longswords, he has a +3 to hit and +4 to damage. Minsc, with Specialization (2 pips) and his 18/93 Strength, gets a +3 to hit and +7 to damage. Without buffs, Minsc only has a +3 to damage bonus over Khalid and, with buffs, Khalid has a +2 to hit and damage bonus over Minsc. Kivan has the next best strength value of the good martials (18/13), and his unbuffed melee bonuses are +2 to hit and +5 to damage with specialization, -1 to hit and +1 to damage vs. Khalid.

He doesn't have a great morale value but, if you want to tank, you should be using summons or a Mage with Mirror Image+Stoneskin. If you know how to use him, Khalid's the best melee DPS you're going to get from the good alignment NPCs.

Khalid's kind of like Xan, in that he's underappreciated and very powerful if you play to his strengths.

[itsu]

Цитата допису Aasimar069:

Цитата допису Wasabi:

Good points. I use Khalid as a support role. Also known as DPS (Damage Per Secoond). See the thing is this: RPG players are usually divided like so:

edit: you also fail to mention Khalid's biggest weakness as a tank: low morale breaking point. For a tank it's a massive disadvantage, hence why I only ever use him for support.

re-edit: Also putting Khalid as tank will mean you probably fight him for the best weapons if you're warrior class

1 - It's true, but nothing that a resist fear spell can't fix. And if he's not hit thanks to his high dexterity + armor, he's very unlikely to have a morale break.

And yes, he is as well suited as a front row DPS or with his bow. He can draw attention from monster as a frontliner easily and play this role of tank, off-tank or whatever if your main character is a warrior or a paladin.... and hit as a truck with the ogre gauntlets ;-)

Yes but why patch him up to be a tank in the first place when there are better tanks out the box i.e. Minsc or Ajantis make better tanks. The fact is Khalid and Jaheira are good hybrids, very good at multiple roles but not the best. Hence why they are the "default" companions pushed onto the newb player.

Like you said in your second point, Khalis makes a good strong support DPS or off-tank. He becomes a very good archer (not the best but nearly) and can support the Tank if he needs to disengage to heal etc.

Jaheira makes a very good healer at level 6 she heals 100+ HP...that's basically your whole party. Fine, you could rest after each engagement and rack up months and months making it really unrealistic if you wish, but as a role player I prefer to reast once x day (night time), ever notice it's always night when you press "rest"? That's a hint... Then with Jaheira you can use her more offensive spells later on as well.

Then if you want a pure archer replace Khalid with Kivan etc. Same with cleric etc. But as hybrids Khalid and Jaheira are pretty strong companions..very flexible.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

The morale thing is not really relevant. How many times does your Khalid fail morale? It happens once or twice for walkthrough to me and usually in very particulare situation (with some playing mistake), because you need to have very low HP iin order to fail morale. And if this happens often you are playing in a wrong way.

I wouldn't say that Khalid is a hybrid, he is a pure warrior, and so he get one of the highest DPS of the NPCs. And can also be a good tank, good as many others.
And also a good archer, but you need to spends pips on bows.

The real point is that in BG1 any character that can wear a full armor is a good tank. I consider a tank any character that can absorbe attacks, regardless the damage done.
I usually prefer to have a divine caster as a tank and 1-2 front fighter for DPS. They are not supportive, they are the ones that DO damage (while the tank do less than 20% of the damage of the group).
In BG1 bhaalspwan can be both tank and DPS, but for the companions you need to choose.

[Hopper]

It's a bit of an unfair comparison because Yeslick is simply outrageous.

Big-Fisted Belt + Gauntlets of Dexterity + DUHM = 21 20 19 6 16 10 in every fight.

If you manage to get him early enough, you can train him in two-weapon style and give him Ashideena + The Kneecapper
THAC0: 7 / 12 (blunt gets a bonus to hit most targets)
Damage: 15-18 / 14-17
APR: 3

Already he beats most other melee characters, but Yeslick also has...
Better saving throws than almost everyone else.
He can summon skeleton warriors and animals.
He can become immune to many things.
He can heal.
He can Turn Undead.
And he can go invisible!

[W.R. Winter]

hard agree, Khalid is a baller. although I'm not a minmaxing powergamer I do play with SCS on higher difficulty, and there he's a pretty good bowman.

not gameplay related but when I started playing I gravitated towards Coran and Kivan for my ranged damage characters. and for NPC Project-related reasons I ended up finding them somewhat irritating. contrary to op I've never once been irritated or annoyed by Khalid.

[itsu]

=Wicket W. Warrick;6352962881245316964
I wouldn't say that Khalid is a hybrid, he is a pure warrior, and so he get one of the highest DPS of the NPCs. And can also be a good tank, good as many others.
And also a good archer, but you need to spends pips on bows.

Well with 17 strength he get's nowhere near the damage of say Minsc or anyone with 18 or above, which makes him a weak warrior and nowhere near one of the highest DPS. I often play with Minsc, my pali and Khalid, he doesn't even come close to the damage we deal in melee combat. How can he with 17 strength??? The only way is to spend pips in melee weapons, but then he's useless in ranged combat. That's why it's difficult to get him to deal that much damage....Minsc does a lot more, Stats don't lie.

Archer, he's not as good as Kivan or Coran, but decent with his good dex bonus.

So decent but not the best at anything = hybrid in my eyes.

Then morale failure depends I suppose on how you play, if he's your main tank I would suspect his HP gets low often and so morale fails often too. As support though he's fine. Trust me, I played Khalid a lot (over 200 hours)....I know him well.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Цитата допису Wasabi:

=Wicket W. Warrick;6352962881245316964
I wouldn't say that Khalid is a hybrid, he is a pure warrior, and so he get one of the highest DPS of the NPCs. And can also be a good tank, good as many others.
And also a good archer, but you need to spends pips on bows.

Well with 17 strength he get's nowhere near the damage of say Minsc or anyone with 18 or above, which makes him a weak warrior and nowhere near one of the highest DPS. I often play with Minsc, my pali and Khalid, he doesn't even come close to the damage we deal in melee combat. How can he with 17 strength??? The only way is to spend pips in melee weapons, but then he's useless in ranged combat. That's why it's difficult to get him to deal that much damage....Minsc does a lot more, Stats don't lie.

Archer, he's not as good as Kivan or Coran, but decent with his good dex bonus.

So decent but not the best at anything = hybrid in my eyes.

Then morale failure depends I suppose on how you play, if he's your main tank I would suspect his HP gets low often and so morale fails often too. As support though he's fine. Trust me, I played Khalid a lot (over 200 hours)....I know him well.

I proably played almost double hours with him, so I can say something either.
What you say is more theoretical than practical for melee capability, i.e. the difference is not really relevant in game, it doesn't makes fights easier. It is more relevant for ranged weapon

This in general, but also because playing correctly, the tank will have dexterity gauntlets, the DPS dealer will have strength boosted (spells, gauntlets potions,...). If not, either there's no need of high damage on that fight or you are not playing at your best.
I play with him as tank often and always as front liner, and he never fail morale, maybe once or twice in a walkthrough. I think that all this point of low morale is partially true: it is exagereted: he has a morale similar or equal to other NPcs, also if he breaks earlier than others. The point is how you play and difficulty level: at high difficulty you play preventing great damage and low HP value, so morale failure is rare.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

The morale thing is not really relevant.

It is, since it is implemented, and Khalid's anxiety is reflected also in the things he says. His stuttering emphasizes his low courage personality:
--> https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Khalid/Quotes

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

How many times does your Khalid fail morale?

That's not the point. Quite some new players take a beating, desperately miss a healer and lose companions during combat.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Цитата допису D'amarr from Darshiva:

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

The morale thing is not really relevant.

It is, since it is implemented, and Khalid's anxiety is reflected also in the things he says. His stuttering emphasizes his low courage personality:
--> https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Khalid/Quotes

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

How many times does your Khalid fail morale?

That's not the point. Quite some new players take a beating, desperately miss a healer and lose companions during combat.

I agree with you, from a roleplayer point of view it is important and for new players can be.

Still for an expert player what I said is valid. There is a major perception of the failure due to personality: actually he doesn't fail so often and his values are near or equal to many other NPCs and a seasoned player almost never put him in the condition to fail morale.

But generally speaking I agree, expecially at the beginning and for new player he can have this problem. Raising level this issue gets solved by itself because the high pool of HP make failure very difficult (while it remains more likely for other NPCs, like Garrick).

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Yeah, careful players and meta-gamers will avoid death of companions, of course. Especially when replaying the game.

Yet first time players and returning players often complain about early encounters being a major problem for their low HP characters. Not limited to the Hobgoblins at Friendly Arm Inn, Tarnesh and other bounty hunters, the infamous Ogre and the Ogrillons on the road, Silke, Kobold Archers and archers in general, evil parties in various areas, the Ogre Mage Khark, and and and...

Tons of seemingly unexpected heavy hitters in the game, not just early on.

[itsu]

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

Цитата допису Wasabi:

Well with 17 strength he get's nowhere near the damage of say Minsc or anyone with 18 or above, which makes him a weak warrior and nowhere near one of the highest DPS. I often play with Minsc, my pali and Khalid, he doesn't even come close to the damage we deal in melee combat. How can he with 17 strength??? The only way is to spend pips in melee weapons, but then he's useless in ranged combat. That's why it's difficult to get him to deal that much damage....Minsc does a lot more, Stats don't lie.

Archer, he's not as good as Kivan or Coran, but decent with his good dex bonus.

So decent but not the best at anything = hybrid in my eyes.

Then morale failure depends I suppose on how you play, if he's your main tank I would suspect his HP gets low often and so morale fails often too. As support though he's fine. Trust me, I played Khalid a lot (over 200 hours)....I know him well.

I proably played almost double hours with him, so I can say something either.
What you say is more theoretical than practical for melee capability, i.e. the difference is not really relevant in game, it doesn't makes fights easier. It is more relevant for ranged weapon

This in general, but also because playing correctly, the tank will have dexterity gauntlets, the DPS dealer will have strength boosted (spells, gauntlets potions,...). If not, either there's no need of high damage on that fight or you are not playing at your best.
I play with him as tank often and always as front liner, and he never fail morale, maybe once or twice in a walkthrough. I think that all this point of low morale is partially true: it is exagereted: he has a morale similar or equal to other NPcs, also if he breaks earlier than others. The point is how you play and difficulty level: at high difficulty you play preventing great damage and low HP value, so morale failure is rare.

Maybe you're right, I never use Khalid as a frontline tank, mostly his low 15 strength puts me off as does his low weight carrying capacity, so full plate is out of the question and usually only Ankh will do. I think I used him on my first playthroughs years ago as a tank, then his morale break made me give up.

I looked up morale break point, he has the "lowest" score in the game with 6, in comparison Minsc has 2 (lower is better). But also it says morale is hard-coded and ever companion will break differently for different circumstances. I think the devs went one by one and customised each companion to act different with morale.

The manual says lots of things can affect morale break: low HP, but also the amount of hit points lost in a short time, environment like some characters prefer forests (i.e. Jaheira) and some hate underground etc. Also the enemies in view not only fighting, so if you enter a cave with a wyvern for example, big enemy undergraound. etc.

This is why I don't like Khalid as tank. Khalid complains about the underground, so it makes you think he loses morale points fighting anywhere not outside. He also complains about taking on any creature in melee. Same reason I suspect Jaheira hates the night and towns and anywhere not in nature. I suspect they lose morale points right away. Not sure as I never used Jaheira other than the back line so her morale break is inconsequential. Of course you can buff them with guantlets etc. but you're basically starting at a low point. Also some weapons I prefer to use on my char. or other characters who would make more use.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

I think that those aspects that you highlight are not really implemented, they are only put for roleplaying.
For this reason people think that Khalid has morale break much often than he actually does. He has low morale, but not so low like anyone should think listenning to his speeches. The mechanic is not clear, but there's no evidence of different programming of this aspects, and it would be a unique approach in the game. ANyway I have not evidence of the opposite, so you can be right either,
How many times your khalid has panic, and in what circumstances? That's the real point. Mine, in all the walktohorugh only when he loses a high percentage of the maximum Hp in a short time (in a single hit) and finishes at low HP; that's what happens also with enemies. So it is more likely at low level, because he reaches more than 100, and loosing 100 hp in a single hit is not that easy. For the same reason, playing with Garrick it is more easy to hear "Brave, brave sir Garrick, sir Garrick ran away!

[itsu]

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

I think that those aspects that you highlight are not really implemented, they are only put for roleplaying.
For this reason people think that Khalid has morale break much often than he actually does. He has low morale, but not so low like anyone should think listenning to his speeches. The mechanic is not clear, but there's no evidence of different programming of this aspects, and it would be a unique approach in the game. ANyway I have not evidence of the opposite, so you can be right either,
How many times your khalid has panic, and in what circumstances? That's the real point. Mine, in all the walktohorugh only when he loses a high percentage of the maximum Hp in a short time (in a single hit) and finishes at low HP; that's what happens also with enemies. So it is more likely at low level, because he reaches more than 100, and loosing 100 hp in a single hit is not that easy. For the same reason, playing with Garrick it is more easy to hear "Brave, brave sir Garrick, sir Garrick ran away!

You might be right Wicket, I admit it's been years since I used Khalid as tank, I think he makes perfect support as archer/melee and protect the back line, so you probably have more experience playing him as tank than me. I will agree with you my friend, plus I like how someone tanks with Khalid, since it's a different way to play than the "norm". I always like players who make things which "should not work"...work. If you know what I mean.

[Aasimar069]

Цитата допису Volfogg:

Цитата допису Wicket W. Warrick:

I usually never use tomes on NPCs even If I don't plan to go to BG2. Even on useless stats. i like the idea of bhaalspawn being somehow special.

I mean... if Sarevok has 90+ scores in all incarnations and MC is supposed to surpass him, isn't that a valid enough point to do that with tomes? Well, it is for me at least. Maybe I'm powergaming too much, but I like importing tome-enhanced MCs. I can free a gear slot or two that way or reduce effects of plot relevant stat sacrifices.

3 tomes of wisdom won't help you defeat him if you're not a priest.

[Aasimar069]

Цитата допису Wasabi:

-Role players will not split Khalid and Jaheira up as they are husband and wife you get one you're lumped with the other. That's how we role.

Then you can roleplay the fact she mistakenly get close to a basilisks and get petrified until the rest of the game.

- Yes Khalid, we will find a scroll to unpetrify her ASAP ;-)