Khalid deserves much more love than Jaheira

[Aasimar069]

Khalid is not very much liked by many Baldur's Gate fans, but beyond his annoying soundset, he has a lot of advantages to be kept in a "Good" party, in fact, much more than Jaheira (we will discuss about that later).

Strength 15 : His main weakness :
This weakness can be solved with the Gloves of Ogre Strength which are obtainable as soon as you can access Baldur's Gate. When you know the game, you can access this aera quite quickly, so the main character's weakness will be fixed mid-game.

Dexterity 16 : Good for a tanky character.
If your main character doesn't need the dexterity book, you can give it to Khalid and then make him a better tank with no need of using the gloves of dexterity.

Constution 17 : Pure gold for a warrior. this is what make this character shine.

Proficiencies : can reach 4 pips in longswords and maybe even 5 in SoD, which make him even more useful. A longsword +2 is quickly obtainable.


Jaheira on the other hand is quite useless. It's main advantage is to be available as your only healer at the beginning of the game.
You should replace her ASAP by Yeslick when you meet him since he's Jaheira with better stats (with no b00bs unfortunately - so that's why this character doesn't get a lot of love).

Yeslick :
- has more strength than Jaheira
- has less dexterity, but that can be fixed with the gloves
- has a better constitution
- has more wisdom (can reach 19 with the 3 books)
- cleric spells are better than druid spells
- can wear the belt of big fists without losing much intelligence since he scores a low 7 by default.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Why reduce Jaheira's role to that of a healer?

Why ignore Branwen? She's a pure cleric and can be reached at level 1.

Wasting tomes on story companions is a bad idea, since story companions get reset to game defaults in BG2(EE). Using tomes on custom companions is a different thing. That works well.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

I totally agrre about Khalid.
I think that the differences between Yeslick and Jaheira are not so big, depending on the role that you want to give them, it is more a matter of preferences, party composition but also quests and exploration order.

[itsu]

Good points. I use Khalid as a support role. Also known as DPS (Damage Per Secoond). See the thing is this: RPG players are usually divided like so:

1) Table toppers: Usually solo thinking players with limited party experience (can sometimes have good party experience)...

2) 3Ders: Came from Skyrim and totally single players, no idea about teams

3) MMOers: WOW etc = Best team builders. Raiding online dungeons teaches you to balance teams. And it was always thus as a minimumL Tank, DPS, Healer, Mage, Stealth/Rogue

-I see in your post putting Khalid as tank and not DPS as a mistake. He is perfect in support role i.e. DPS. Bow, protect the back line and if need be support the tank.

-I see also you don't rate having a designated healer much as you say you play with everyone healing randomly. A healer who only heals is a MASSIVE WEAPON. Try it. You go through the whole game with hardly anyone dying.

-Role players will not split Khalid and Jaheira up as they are husband and wife you get one you're lumped with the other. That's how we role.

tank, dps, rogue, mage, healer I believe each player in your party needs a designated role.

edit: you also fail to mention Khalid's biggest weakness as a tank: low morale breaking point. For a tank it's a massive disadvantage, hence why I only ever use him for support.

re-edit: Also putting Khalid as tank will mean you probably fight him for the best weapons if you're warrior class

[Sstavix]

I'll admit that I never used Kalid or Jaheira much in my playthroughs of the game. But one of the things I like about Khalid is his stuttering problem. It demonstrates how people with a speech disorder can still be heroic and do good things. I think we need more examples like that in our media.

[itsu]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I'll admit that I never used Kalid or Jaheira much in my playthroughs of the game. But one of the things I like about Khalid is his stuttering problem. It demonstrates how people with a speech disorder can still be heroic and do good things. I think we need more examples like that in our media.

Have you seen the movie King's Speech? Looks totally boring...but think it's all about that. Never seen it myself I find films like that boring. They should make a movie about Khalid called "The Useless Tank's Speech"...

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Wasabi:

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I'll admit that I never used Kalid or Jaheira much in my playthroughs of the game. But one of the things I like about Khalid is his stuttering problem. It demonstrates how people with a speech disorder can still be heroic and do good things. I think we need more examples like that in our media.

Have you seen the movie King's Speech? Looks totally boring...but think it's all about that. Never seen it myself I find films like that boring. They should make a movie about Khalid called "The Useless Tank's Speech"...

"The King's Speech" is one of those movies on my "Ones To Watch When I'm Not Gaming" list. I'd like to see it eventually, but haven't yet. But yes, I thought of that film as well when I was writing my post!

[Aasimar069]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Why reduce Jaheira's role to that of a healer?

Why ignore Branwen? She's a pure cleric and can be reached at level 1.

Wasting tomes on story companions is a bad idea, since story companions get reset to game defaults in BG2(EE). Using tomes on custom companions is a different thing. That works well.

1 - Ofc she's not only a healer, but she's not the most proeficient at combat. Yeslick fills the spot as warrior / support caster much better

2 - Branwen has less wisdom than Yeslick and is less reliable during combat. due to no warrior levels She will have one more cleric level in BG1 but it doesn't compensate her drawbacks of being a single classed cleric.

3 - If your PC(s) doesn't need it ofc. And many people rather create a new character for BG2 rather that picking back their character from BG1 (for instance due to the level cap, you may want to dual your character in BG1 earlier, where it is not at all a good idea to have done this this early for BG2).

[Aasimar069]

Originally posted by Wasabi:

Good points. I use Khalid as a support role. Also known as DPS (Damage Per Secoond). See the thing is this: RPG players are usually divided like so:

edit: you also fail to mention Khalid's biggest weakness as a tank: low morale breaking point. For a tank it's a massive disadvantage, hence why I only ever use him for support.

re-edit: Also putting Khalid as tank will mean you probably fight him for the best weapons if you're warrior class

1 - It's true, but nothing that a resist fear spell can't fix. And if he's not hit thanks to his high dexterity + armor, he's very unlikely to have a morale break.

And yes, he is as well suited as a front row DPS or with his bow. He can draw attention from monster as a frontliner easily and play this role of tank, off-tank or whatever if your main character is a warrior or a paladin.... and hit as a truck with the ogre gauntlets ;-)

[Volfogg]

Oh, I use that duo for tanking on regular basis out of sheer laziness.

Khalid doesn't hit hard, but eventually his fighter proficiencies will make his long sword attacks more accurate. Long swords are probably most varied in terms of magic effects (Harrower, Varscona, Burning Earth and DLC exclusive Spellbreaker and Tongue of Acid) and plenty of weaker magical ones are available over course of the game.
Once you reach the titular city, claiming for Khalid those Gauntlets of Ogre's Strength from Low Lantern shouldn't be a problem.

On Jaheira I tend to throw in Gauntlets of Dexterity and make her a secondary tank, mostly dealing with projectile weapon threat and dishing blunt damage with Quarterstaff+1/Club+1/Mighty Oak/Staff Mace.

Since addition of Potion Bag in EE, I've started to hoard more varieties of potions. STR ones are particularly useful in tougher fights. (I mean... It's a darn RPG and there is loot container that lessens inventory space taken by certain loot, why shouldn't I hoard potions?)

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

But one of the things I like about Khalid is his stuttering problem. It demonstrates how people with a speech disorder can still be heroic and do good things.

But his stuttering is more about emphasizing that he is a low morale companion:
--> https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Morale

[Volfogg]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Sstavix:

But one of the things I like about Khalid is his stuttering problem. It demonstrates how people with a speech disorder can still be heroic and do good things.

But his stuttering is more about emphasizing that he is a low morale companion:
--> https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Morale

Hmm...
Low charisma - Check,
Nervous wreck - check,
not elaborated upon family issues in biography - check.
Yeah, Khalid's not a Cavalier type that's for sure.

The high-morale break group seems to include both egomaniac gnomes, both spoony bards and one particular only-in-for-money-type of dwarf.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Why reduce Jaheira's role to that of a healer?

Why ignore Branwen? She's a pure cleric and can be reached at level 1.

Wasting tomes on story companions is a bad idea, since story companions get reset to game defaults in BG2(EE). Using tomes on custom companions is a different thing. That works well.

Totally agree on all points. Jaheira can be a better tank than her hubby, and her Druid spells allow for more combat use (Entangle, Call Lightening.) I did eventually replace her on my recent run with Branwen because of,... Khalid. Whether or not you like him, there are way better tanks in the game than him (Kagain, Minsc, even Ajantis, who can be buffed as much as Khalid and does not have a morale problem.) I find it curious the OP is cool with buffing Khalid with gauntlets and Remove Fear, but does not consider it worth it for Jaheira or other better NPCs?

Look, Khalid is a borderline novelty character. If you like him, you like him. I am sure there are people who love a party of Xan, Eldoth, Garrick, Xzar, and Montaron too. But convincing a bunch of veteran powergamers that Khalid is all that,... yeah. Good luck.

As to the rest: I have never seen a poll, but ever since EE (or conversions like TuTu) allowed all the kits and classes into BG1, I am not at all sure about the statement that "most" people roll a new character for BG2. I have literally never done this. The whole point of the RPG-side of the games is to take your level 1 noob from Candlekeep to the Abyss! All the posts I see on the BG2 discussion about rolling characters are from people who don't have/want BG1. I am sure some players do the games separately, but "most?"

And based on that, yeah, never waste Tomes on NPCs unless they are player-created. That's nuts. My Cavalier does not need more WIS, but no point wasting those three points on Branwen! And I am moving that PC to BG2. Call me crazy!

[Volfogg]

Dunno. I can agree that Kagain is much tankier than Khalid, but not as evasive. If I had to maximize endgame power and tankiness, I can easily push it to -10 AC on Khalid. While I could do the same on Kagain, it means he will only do 1 point more base damage from 1 STR difference than Khalid, also he's limited mostly to bland Axe of Mauletar or Throwing Axe +2.

Now if I go for balanced gear, I get respectable 104(+5)HP, -7/-8 AC, 18/00 STR, 1-2 anti-undead swords and one cold sword on Khalid.
I can agree that Minsc and Ajantis have top-tier morale, but they lack HP/level and bonus AC Khalid has, also they level a bit slower due to Ranger&Paladin EXP tables > Fighter EXP table.

On top of that Minsc leans more towards glass cannon: two-handers or dual maces. I just don't see Minsc relying on a shield.
He works well in tandem with Khalid thanks to Spider's Bane/World's Edge's melee range though. Jaheira can chug STR potions for harder fights, she also has somewhere -7/-8 AC with remaining magical gear in my scenario, but she needs some room for spellcasting before joining the fight and drawing some enemy aggro from Khalid before he gets morale issues.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Centurion:

And based on that, yeah, never waste Tomes on NPCs unless they are player-created. That's nuts. My Cavalier does not need more WIS, but no point wasting those three points on Branwen! And I am moving that PC to BG2. Call me crazy!

I usually never use tomes on NPCs even If I don't plan to go to BG2. Even on useless stats. i like the idea of bhaalspawn being somehow special.

[Volfogg]

Originally posted by Wicket W. Warrick:

Originally posted by Centurion:

And based on that, yeah, never waste Tomes on NPCs unless they are player-created. That's nuts. My Cavalier does not need more WIS, but no point wasting those three points on Branwen! And I am moving that PC to BG2. Call me crazy!

I usually never use tomes on NPCs even If I don't plan to go to BG2. Even on useless stats. i like the idea of bhaalspawn being somehow special.

I mean... if Sarevok has 90+ scores in all incarnations and MC is supposed to surpass him, isn't that a valid enough point to do that with tomes? Well, it is for me at least. Maybe I'm powergaming too much, but I like importing tome-enhanced MCs. I can free a gear slot or two that way or reduce effects of plot relevant stat sacrifices.