Could someone give me a build tree?

[Apathetic]

Or point me to a thread that already talks about what I'd like to have. I can't find it. I'd like an ideal warrior/theif build. Thank you.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

Gnome Fighter/Thief, 18(/55+) str/dex/con

If you get the Shadow Armor early (by selling the ring of Wizardry) and then go grab the boots of stealth, you'll only need a small amount of points in Hide/MS to hide reliably in shadows and then can branch out into other things. (the Gnome starts with an excellent spread of racial thief skill, including 10 in Detect Illusion, where as the dwarf is spread exclusvely in locks/traps/set traps...which are decent choices as well...but...the Gnome makes a better multi-purpose thief).

That's about it.

A Half-orc Fighter/Thief has a strong early game presence due to 19 str (and doesn't have to mess with the /?? roll), but gets no bonus thief skills and eventually everyone else gets 19+ str as well, so in the long run it's a waste..and there's a negliable difference between 18/00 and 19 (and the same goes for going 19 to 20). The halfling strength penalty on the other hand keeps them behind the other choices for a good chunk of the game (as in not until the sequel) and their shorty bonus is the least useful, so while they do get the most overall thief points (by about 10), as a fighter thief, they leave a lot to be desired.

Elves and Half-elves don't bring much worth mentioning. The +1 hit for elves is ok-ish for the early game, but quickly gets lost as the Fighter Thac0 progression quickly buries it, and their charm resistance is highly circumstantial. They also only get about 25 thief points from race (including the extra from 19 dex for a elf) which is much lower then the shorties (which is at 40 for shorties or 50 for a 19 dex halfling), and their thief point spread is awful.

Gnomes become damn near immune to magic (getting ludacrisly high wand/spell saves), while dwarves get better poison/death saves but still get decent-ish spell saves. However, gnomes get approximately 15 more thief skill points due to not having a dex penalty like dwarves do (which stays roughly the same even as you add more DEX later).

Humans aren't even in the running since an ideal build requires levels beyond the scope of BG1 (a 7/8 dual isn't terrible, but it is very wasteful of potential), and even then, are ultimately significantly weaker in the end-game due to getting less HLA. And as always, the problem with downtime, making you wait for 3/4 of the game to actually begin playing the game (or taking a grossly inferior build to get to play sooner but ultimately being a weaker then just going with a multiclass).

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Some people would just recommend playing a Swashbuckler....but the main issue with the swashbuckler is that it loses both main combat perks of warriors and thieves. No bonus APR (they even lose the extra 1/2 attack from specialization making it fairly pointless) and No backstab. And while at extremely high levels and dual-wielding speed weapons, they can almost compensate, you honestly could've just taken a Bounty Hunter and been better (even an Assassin can do ok, but you need to get the Shadow Armor/Boots of Stealth ASAP to try and compensate for their ASS skill growth, though using Poison Weapon while chunking darts can do A LOT of damage in a very short amount of time).

[danconnors]

Boots of stealth (worn whispers) can be acquired early in the game. They are free, but shadow armor is very expensive (around 11,000 gold pieces, depending on your rep). However, in the area just south of Nashkel there's a group of 3 adventurers who will greet your party with insults. Pick the draw steel responce.

Once they're disposed of the leader is wearing a suit of +2 studded leather. The armor rating of this armor is only 1 less than the shadow armor. When you go to trade up the +2 studded armor brings the price down by at least 2,500 gold pieces.

In the area south of High Hedge, near the insane cleric's camp, is another 'small' encounter that will get your fighter thief the 'whistling sword'. This is a +2 short sword, which is a good weapon for a fighter/thief.

When you return to Baldur's Gate (as fugitives) in the sewers beneath the city, you can pick up the short sword of back stabbing. This is a +3 short sword, which is the ideal weapon for a thief interested in back stabbing.

[Apathetic]

Thanks for all the input guys. It's been a long time since I've returned to Baldurs gate, So I'm slightly lost by the phrase "18(/55+) str/dex/con", and while I'm pretty positive that I should start as a Fighter, when do I change class to duel?

[danconnors]

If you are going the human dual skill routine, and you plan to play Baldur's Gate 2, you should remain a fighter all the way through Baldur's Gate. At around level 12 or so your fighter will be capable of hitting armor class 0 (the equivalent of a fighter wearing regular plate mail, carrying a normal shield, and with an average dexterity) with a roll of 1 on the 20 sided die. He will be hitting 2.5 or 3 times per round. He will truly be a tank, especially if you find and apply the tome of strength under Candlekeep.

You will then not need to worry about strength 18/55, because you will be stronger than any 18 fighter. You will have a ridiculously high carry allowance (500 or 600 pounds), and your hits will do lots of extra damage. If you become a thief at this point, you will progress rather quickly to level 13 at which point you are able to act as a thief and a fighter.

If you plan to dual wield--fight with a sword in each hand--it's best to pick up this skill while you're a fighter, because a thief can only get 1st level dual wielding. If you go on to BG2 try as hard as you can to kill the black dragon in the shade lord dungeon. It's scales can be made into the fabulous black dragon studded armor. With armor class 1 it's the best armor a thief can use and still be able to pick locks, defuse traps, etc.

Strength 18/any number was put in to differientiate fighters from normal people with a strength of 18. At 18 strength you can carry 200 pounds. At 18/100, usually spelled 18/00 load carrying goes up to 300 or 400 pounds. It's unimportant, because you will definitely want that tome of strength under Candlekeep.

[Apathetic]

I kind of like the idea of being a Gnome over a human. Does that change your suggestion of fighter throughout BG, and switch to duel in BG2, Danconnors?

[danconnors]

I don't think a gnome will make a very good fighter/thief. To be blunt they're too runty to make a good fighter. I think their max strength may be only 17, but don't quote me on that. If you want to play something really far out pick a half orc fighter/priest. That will really put the fear of God into the unfaithful. They can reach strength 20 in Baldur's Gate.

Also only humans can become dual characters. A gnome must start out as a fighter/thief, if that's what he's going to be.

[voehringer_nitron]

A Gnome can have 18 (or in the case of a fighter 18/xx) strength, Halflings are limited to 17. And something worth noting, even though a fighter/thief can use any weapon, only thief-usable weapons are suitable for backstab attacks. So while you can put points into weapons like halberds or flails, they wont get a backstab multiplier.

And non-humans cant dual-class, only multi-class. Their earned XP is split evenly between two (or three) classes at the same time. They can freely use skills from each class at the same time, unlike a dual class character who cant use their first class's skills until their new class is one level higher. Also, you cant use class kits for multi-class characters, and you can dual from, but not into a kit, even if you didnt take one for your first class.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

Ideally just going with a Multi-class is the easiest option, they don't really require any pre-planning, and the non-humans do get some fairly decent perks to compensate for the lack of kit-bonuses. And you skip all the downtime that dual-classing requires.

Longswords, Shortswords, and Scimitars are all good weapon choices, though technically speaking, Staves are the BEST backstabbing weapons in both games (they're also technically the strongest weapon type in BG1 and 2nd strongest in BG2 (just barely getting beat by the Flail of Ages +5)).

Assuming you want to go with a Gnome F/T.

(Warrior classes get a exceptional strength roll if their str is 18. It's a random number between 01-100 (shown as 00), that gives them a little extra carry weight, to-hit, and damage. Anything over 55 is fine, though getting a 00 is the ideal but generally pretty difficult as you have to completely reroll all your stats if you don't get it, and as with the half-orc, only really matters in the very early game as you eventually items/buffs that can push you to 19 and beyond).

Str: 18/55+ (18/00 would be ideal)
Dex: 18
Con: 18
Int/Wis: Whatever (though at least 10 or 11 is recommend, if you plan to go to BG2.)
Cha: Whatever you can spare after everything else

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As for weapons.

I would use:
Darts (or bows, your choice) *
Staff **
2hded Style *

(Most people would be better off going with Bows, though I just prefer darts a personal preference).

(Put your first level gained weapon proficiency into 2hded style (total **). After that you can do whatever since you have everything you need (another pip in bows/darts wouldn't hurt). The dart/bow proficiency is mostly just there to help out while you're still not able to stealth very well, though it's also handy in BG2 for gunning down enemies that can't be backstabbed and you really don't want to get close to. (though once you can get a couple charges of Greater Whirlwind Attack's HLA, you can kill pretty much any enemy in a single round with the Staff of the Ram +4/+6)

Normally putting more then 1 point in Single weapon or two-handed styles is a waste, but a backstabber actually gets enough benefit from the extra +1 damage (which gets multiplied) to be worth the point. And there's honeslty not much else you actually need points in.


As for thief points. If you don't know where the boots of stealth are, and aren't willing to sacrifice the ring of wizardry to get some Shadow Armor immediately (together they give you approximately 50 points worth of stealth skill), you'll want to focus on stealth first. (it's a good idea to keep Imeon and have her focus on finding traps/Open locks). IF you do plan get the boots of stealth/Shadow Armor ASAP, it'll free up a lot of points and you can get a few utility skills yourself.

Hide and MS are averaged to get your stealth chance, so which you put points in doesn't really matter, since it's going to take the same amount total of points regardless. Anything over 100 total between them is good, and the closer you can get to 200 after modifiers the better your hiding ability will be.

If you're keeping a utility thief (like Imeon) once you can hide fairly reliably, start working on Set Trap (anything above 50 is fine, since points will be a premium in BG1), so once you've scouted ahead, you can find a good spot to set traps, then backstab an enemy and then lead any survivors into the trap/s for extra damage/finish them.

You get penalties for being in daylight and another penalty for not being in a shadow (your character will darken slightly if he's in enough of a shadow for it to count), so be prepared to aim for shadows when attempting to hide or better yet, travel at night, which makes it easier to hide anywhere and really easy in a shadow.


Detect Illusion has a 1% chance per skill point to dispel hostile illusions (it checks seperately per illusion), and checks twice per round while using Find Traps. Gnomes have 10% by default, so without putting any points in it, you'll have a ~20% chance per round of instantly dispelling illusions by toggling Find Traps for a few rounds. (By the time you get to BG2, you'll have plenty of thief points to spare and can easily max it to 100%, which turns some of the more annoying caster fights into a joke when you can just keep removing their various illusion based protections without wasting any resources).

[Apathetic]

I'm getting excited to start with my gnome fighter/theif. I've started rolling him while I continue to read back up on companions. So far I've gotten a 99 %/32 and don't think I'll get anything better for my roll, but I have a lot of reading to catch up on, so we'll see.

[Apathetic]

So now that I've started playing a little again, I have a few more questions.

I went with Gnome, and True Neutral, since I couldn't make my mind up on companions yet.
For stats I have 18/32% Str/Con/Dex/Chr and at least 12 in each of intel/wisdom.
I'm not worried about the low %, since as you both said, when I get 19 Str, it's not going to matter.

You're suggesting I get M.S & hiding each to about 60, and when I get those, move on to set traps as close to 100 as I can get? Then I assume detect traps or illusions.

I did follow your suggestions for weapon prof. choices, but I don't know what weapon you were suggestion for me to pick up along my travels. I looked up Darts, and Staffs, and didn't see anything over +3 in BGEE for Staff, or +2 for Darts.

I will be rushing towards getting the Boots of Stealth, and then the Shadow Armor. I read somewhere there is a myrthial chain armor I can still use theif skills in, but I'm not certain where yet, or do you guys even reccomend it?

What other equipment should I be keeping a look out for? Ie, helms, bracers,rings,cloak,belt..

Also, Backstab is triggered simply from my first hit while I'm hiding, right? I don't need to click a certain button? I saw my guy leave shadows when I clicked on the staff to attack something the first time.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

Any helm basically (just for the crit protection), though the Helm of Balduran adds some extra thac0, just get whatever looks like it has nice stuff, though unless you're soloing, be mindful that it might be better to give stuff to your companions as they'll probably get more use out of things then you will.

(AC bonuses are pretty much worthless to a F/T since you should never be getting attacked, and since you'll have the shadow armor anyway for the bonus hide, it gives you all the AC you realistically would ever need).

If you get them fairly early, the bracers of archery are nice for boosting the damage the darts deal, though once you get to the late game, you should be using Gauntlets of Expertise for the +1 hit/+2 damage, which makes your BSs better.

Rings of Invisibility are awesome, for obvious reasons. there really isn't much in the way of necklaces, since the Wolfbane charm is super-specialized in it's use, and the shadowed armor will prevent wearing rings/amulets of protection.....a necklace of missiles I guess.....but it's fairly op (nice for wiping out/softening up large groups but only has like 5 or 10 charges, and since you can stealth, you can keep your party back while scouting ahead and weighing your options of whether you should backstab+traps or use a charge).

Potions of invisibility you can save if you want to, for enemies that may survive a BS attempt to do so immediately again, though I usually just sell them, since they're worth quite a bit.

(Nothing in BG1 requires greater then +1 to hit (though some rare enemies do require specific materials to damage), so I wouldn't worry about the lack of modifiers much.

+3 is the highest weapon modifiers go (you can buy a +3 staff at Ulgoth's Beard, though it's about 11,000) though the Staff of Striking is a special +3 staff that deals +6 extra damage, which gives it a 10-15 base damage, and is without question the best Backstabing weapon in the game...but it requires a charge for each attack that lands and only has 10 charges, so it needs to be used sparingly, and only on opponents that you REALLY want to die in 1-hit. (the staff of the ram in BG2 is even stronger and DOESN'T require charges...and can be upgraded for even more damage then it's base form).

The Staff Mace is also a decent backstab weapon, since it counts as a staff and deals 2d4+2 (4-10) damage instead of 1d6+3 (4-9) like the +3 staff does. And it's 1-hded, so if you decided to pick up at least 2 pips in Two-Weapons (the staff mace isn't available till fairly late, so you'll have gotten quite a few extra weapon profs by then), you could add another weapon to speed up killing of fodder enemies that aren't not worth backstabbing (though just gunning them down with darts/bow is just as effective, so your call).

Basically..you just have a lot of options, and there's no real RIGHT way to do it, every choice has it's fair share of benefits or drawbacks.

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Depending on your situation, it usually better to give the mithril armor to a low strength warrior-type or cleric, since they'll get more use out of the AC bonus then you will (it's got comparable overall AC to platemail but is only about 1/2 the weight). I just find the skill points from Shadow armor far more attractive. Though if you decide to transition in a more melee heavy focus, rather then just backstabbing all the time, it can be worthwhile for the extra AC.

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Later in BG1, you'll want to trade the boots of stealth for boots of speed, since it basically lets you backstab pretty much at will, since you can easily outrun enemies to re-hide and zip back in to stab them again. So once you've got set-traps to a reasonable level, you should start boosting Move Silently in preparation for ditching the boots of stealth (they're mostly just nice for helping you quickly get to the point you can hide reliably, but you'll eventually out grow the need for them).

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In order to stealth, you can't be able to see an enemy (unless you're using the Shadow dancer kit), so in order to backstab again, you need to be able to get the enemy out of your LOS, by either distracting them with other characters or simply being fast enough that you can easily out pace them. Most enemeis are slightly slower then you anyway (excluding wolves), but getting boots of speed makes backstab spamming almost effortless as long as the area isn't extremely cramped.

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And yeah, backstab wears off after the first attack. Also make sure you're actually stabbing them in the back. There's a few enemies that backstab won't work on (Demons, Golems, Beholdiers, Dragons), so be mindful of that if you encounter any (they either have no weak-point to exploit or their senses allow them to see through stealth/invisibility. Kua'tua can see through invisibility/stealth but you can still backstab them, it's just harder to set-up since they need to have their back turned to you).

[danconnors]

If you're really in to backstabbing I recommend that you dual wield, and pick short sword as your weapon of choice. +1 short swords are EVERYWHERE in this game, but a +2 and a +3 short sword are also available. The +2 whistling sword can be found just west of the encounter with the insane priest. The +3 sword of back stabbing is available in the sewers under Baldur's Gate, but only after you return there as a fugitive.

In addition, you can choose dagggers, the TRUE weapon of back stabbing. There are 2 or 3 excellent +2 daggers, and at least one of them also poisons the victim. This more than makes up for the dagger's lesser damage.

You haven't mentioned your trap detecting and disarming skills, but in my view, these are the principle reasons to have a thief in the first place. You will very quickly find out if your skills are sufficient when you reach Seravok's hideout at the end of the game. Your party will be cut to pieces very quickly if your skill isn't high enough. The traps in the center of the room require higher than 100 in trap removal skill to disarm. I know, because I've had thieves with trap removal 100 try and fail to disarm them.

There are 2 items that greatly aid your armor class versus missiles. The cloak of displacement in Ulgoth's beard and the Claw of Kasgorath??? (spelling) at High Hedge. The claw subtracts 2 from your constitution, but my 5 th level half orc fighter/thief shrugged off the 5 lost hit points. He still has 60. I gave the cloak to poor Neera, who can still be killed by a stray arrow.

For missile weapon you might want to consider the sling. This version of BG1 has stones of fire, ice, and electricity available at High Hedge at reasonable prices. Each of these do an extra 2 to 7 points damage from elemental damage. There are also several +1 slings and one +2 sling available in Baldur's gate. You can hold 240 of these stones in your ammo slots, so you basically aren't going to run out of ammo very soon.

[Apathetic]

So I was thinking of having a mixed good/evil party of people that carry over into BG2EE, and was wondering if you thought it'd be viable with my main. Imoen/Jaheira/Viconia/Edwin/Minsc.

I'm also wondering if I missed any character interactions in my reading that might make this not work, and how high my Rep can get.

Path would be:
Start with Imoen
Get Jaheira/Khalid in Arm's Inn
Get Viconia East of Inn
Get Khalid killed
Get Edwin in Nashkel
Kill Dynaheir In Gnoll Stronghol
get Minsc in Nashkel

I'd be dueling Imoen into mage at 6 or 7 thief.

[danconnors]

Probably not the best idea. I've had the paladin in BG2 out of nowhere say to Viconia "Your godess is a godess of evil." He then attacked and made mincemeat out of her before I knew what was going on. I got her raised at the temple, but had to get rid of her, because Keldorn kept killing her. Edwin is the mortal enemy of Dynaheir, so I imagine if they're in the same party they'd be likely to fight at some point.

Also, you're going to have a party with 2 mages, and 2 clerics, leaving Minsc and you as a partial fighter if you choose fighter/thief. This is a way unbalanced party. I would suggest picking up Kivan in High Hedge. He is an elven ranger, and his skill with a bow is unequalled. There is a decent paladin in the area just north of the Friendly Arms inn. You should really have at least two good fighters in your party.

By the way those traps in Sarevok's stronghold are even more lethal than I thought. My thief took a potion of master thievery before he went in, and even with the skill at 140 he couldn't untrap any of those central traps. We were cut to pieces, chewed up, and spit out.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

KIvan is not, nor has he ever BEEN good with bows, and he certainly isn't even close to being the best. (Coran, Khalid, and Shar-teel (in order) are all outright superior, and Monty/Minsc/Kagain are just as good. Even Eldoth (a bard) is technically a better archer simply due to his ability to create/stockpile some rather nasty poisoned arrows that more then make up for the lack of specialization (it's really only his poor thac0 growth and low dex that keeps from being the best archer))

The only reason people say that is because he has a guy with a bow as his portrait, even though he's not even that good at it. He's a far better melee combatant (the 3rd strongest NPC (4th in EE)) and should be used as such, since strength doesn't affect bows (not to mention he can literally never get any better at using bows, while several other characters can actually become better (monty can equal him, and Kagain can surprass him, and Eldoth isn't even a fighter and is actually a contender for best archer period due to his special ability (only really held back by his lower hit-chance....but he comes so late that most people have already gotten attached to their favorite team by then).

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No trap/lock in BG1 is above 100 Skill (and they're exclusive to Durlag's Tower). The pre-TotSC areas top out at 90. The big trap in the Temple can't be disarmed at all (they're like the crusher trap at Spellhold and aren't flagged to be disarmable).

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His party is fine. It mostly depends on what tactics he's planning to use.

Though there isn't much point dual-classing Imeon, especially if she's handling your utility skills, since it'll take a LONG time to get her skills back by the time she gets to 7 Thief. And between Viconia and Edwin, every battle should be a cake walk anyway from a magical standpoint.

(you could technically not even bother with Minsc and take Garreck instead if you need someone else who can use wands, cast a little magic, and he saves a little gold due to his high lore after a couple levels. And his song is basically an at-will fear ward, and fear/horror is a pretty nasty effect, so you could save some spell slots for other things instead of memorizing remove fear). This would also free up the Ankheg plate for Jaheria to use, and the gloves of dexterity, which Minsc typically gets otherwise)

For the first 2/3 of the game, Viconia can pretty much I-WIN most single target battles just using Command while everyone focus attacks with bows/darts/throwing daggers/slings (Bassilus is basically a free 5000 gold if you have a cleric in the party...an actual cleric). And Jaheria can toss a few poor-man's Web (Entangle), and Edwin of course can cast the real Web (as well as plenty of sleep or blinds for dealing large groups or mages/archers).

And if you explore a little, you can get your hands a 50 charge Wand of fire and 30 charge wand of lighting right at the beginning of the game. And the necklaces of missiles isn't too expensive and has 10 (if memory serves) charges of 6d6 fireballs as well.