Just out of curiousity... Why do some people hate the Enhanced Editions?

[Innominus]

Title. I've been reading through some people's thoughts on the Enhanced Editions and many seem to have a very negative opinion of them. Some did claim they didn't like the UI changes, or something about there being less sounds in the game?

I never got to play the series growing up and I REALLY, REALLY like these Infinity Engine games. So far, I finished BG1 EE and P:T EE only once. Right now I'm jumping between IWD EE and BG2 EE and loving them so far. I get that not everything was perfect about the EE editions, but I still don't understand why there's folks out there who seem to hate them compared to the originals. I don't intend on starting flame wars and I do understand SoD had a mixed reception overrall.

For old time players and new players, what are your thoughts?

[voehringer_nitron]

Personally, I do not like any of the new NPCs.

Neera is obnoxious, and before a patch changed it, her initial encounter was forced. You tell her you don't want to get involved, the Red Wizards still show up. You tell them they can take her, and they still attack you. After the fight, she completely ignores what you said before and still wants to come with you. The writing and voice acting are really amateurish.

Dorn, while I found him to be useful in combat, has no personality. I took him with me once, and while I played the whole game with him, he made so little of an impression on me, I don't recall most of the details of his quest. His companions let him get arrested and left him in jail. Senjak and Dorotea ambush you outside the Nashkel mines and when their thugs start dropping dead, it barely registers with them. Dorotea flirts with Dorn to get him to lower his guard, and Senjak realizes she is doing this to trick Dorn, who can clearly hear him. After that, I don't remember much of it, but they were probably less ridiculous.

Rasaad, as a Monk, is not too useful at low levels. His introduction, with that cockney heckler "are you some sort o' kickpuncher?" who then challenges him, while some might find it humorous, I did not. I'll admit to not having used him much, but he might have more depth to him than Dorn.

When new patches were released, a lot of times they introduced new problems. Auto-pause options turned off, difficulty resetting, game would be zoomed out all the way when loading a save or opening and then closing the overlay, prices cut off in stores so things looked like they cost one-tenth the actual amount, a lot of achievements wouldn't trigger.

As far as I am concerned, Siege of Dragonspear was completely unnecessary, and I have no plans to play it.

[Innominus]

Originally posted by voehringer_nitron:

Personally, I do not like any of the new NPCs.

Neera is obnoxious, and before a patch changed it, her initial encounter was forced. You tell her you don't want to get involved, the Red Wizards still show up. You tell them they can take her, and they still attack you. After the fight, she completely ignores what you said before and still wants to come with you. The writing and voice acting are really amateurish.

Dorn, while I found him to be useful in combat, has no personality. I took him with me once, and while I played the whole game with him, he made so little of an impression on me, I don't recall most of the details of his quest. His companions let him get arrested and left him in jail. Senjak and Dorotea ambush you outside the Nashkel mines and when their thugs start dropping dead, it barely registers with them. Dorotea flirts with Dorn to get him to lower his guard, and Senjak realizes she is doing this to trick Dorn, who can clearly hear him. After that, I don't remember much of it, but they were probably less ridiculous.

Rasaad, as a Monk, is not too useful at low levels. His introduction, with that cockney heckler "are you some sort o' kickpuncher?" who then challenges him, while some might find it humorous, I did not. I'll admit to not having used him much, but he might have more depth to him than Dorn.

When new patches were released, a lot of times they introduced new problems. Auto-pause options turned off, difficulty resetting, game would be zoomed out all the way when loading a save or opening and then closing the overlay, prices cut off in stores so things looked like they cost one-tenth the actual amount, a lot of achievements wouldn't trigger.

As far as I am concerned, Siege of Dragonspear was completely unnecessary, and I have no plans to play it.

Are there any big problems with the latest version that showed up?

[Hopper]

When the EE first came out, it wasn't much better than free mods like Tutu and BGT. It mostly just saved you installing like 5-10 different CDs and messing around with mods... But that was the early days. EE is much better now and is the only way I play.

Most of the hate came when Siege of Dragonspear was released. That expansion is playable... if you can ignore most of the silly writing and plot, but the drama attached to it was ridiculous. Many people that weren't even BG fans were hating on it and leaving negative reviews over a few lines of dialog they'd heard about. And on the other team, there were people that praised those same few lines without ever actually playing the games... It was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Just google "Siege of Dragonspear controversy" if you care to know about that crap.

[MaikElPipas]

Originally posted by Hopper:

When the EE first came out, it wasn't much better than free mods like Tutu and BGT. It mostly just saved you installing like 5-10 different CDs and messing around with mods... But that was the early days. EE is much better now and is the only way I play.

Most of the hate came when Siege of Dragonspear was released. That expansion is playable... if you can ignore most of the silly writing and plot, but the drama attached to it was ridiculous. Many people that weren't even BG fans were hating on it and leaving negative reviews over a few lines of dialog they'd heard about. And on the other team, there were people that praised those same few lines without ever actually playing the games... It was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Just google "Siege of Dragonspear controversy" if you care to know about that crap.

Honestly don't get why anyone would want to play that dlc, I mean, it's not a part of the og game so....it seems totally unnecessary.

[Hopper]

Originally posted by El_pipitas:

Honestly don't get why anyone would want to play that dlc, I mean, it's not a part of the og game so....it seems totally unnecessary.

Yeah it was unnecessary, but it's not too bad if you just want new things to kill and new places to explore. It also has some of the biggest battles out of all the Infinity Engine games, if you're into that kinda thing. The story is truly garbage tho.

[The Deep]

Personally I think the EE's were not handled properly. A widescreen fix with some improvements to run on modern systems were all that the games required. Instead we are basically playing someone else's highly modded installation.

[voehringer_nitron]

Originally posted by Peaceful J:

There's something cursed about Dungeons & Dragons that drives people to the brink of ruin and madness, however. Mr. Nietzsche even tried to warn us but we just didn't listen. Oops!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE8XJEeOpyA

[Messsucher]

I do not hate the enchanted edition, but there are some differences I am disappointed to see. Mainly that the original version had very evil clerics, which could summon a small army of undead skeletons.

[Hamish]

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by El_pipitas:

Honestly don't get why anyone would want to play that dlc, I mean, it's not a part of the og game so....it seems totally unnecessary.

Yeah it was unnecessary, but it's not too bad if you just want new things to kill and new places to explore. It also has some of the biggest battles out of all the Infinity Engine games, if you're into that kinda thing. The story is truly garbage tho.

this was my main problem - what a rubbish story... I got so far and I am like... hmm this is a little familiar... log off

[JC]

Because way back when people already had the mods that made it one game and it didn't do enough, compared to what people already had with mods and player fixes.

Now it's just marked to a whole new generation and it's a very good version of the game over all. Mods and other stuff have been ported over and it is a more complete game.

This came out a pretty long time ago and many folks where looking for a complete remaster, that is not really what the game is. It's just better or more specially more polished, unless of course you want to play at 480x640 on some old CRT vintage gamer system..

[AlexMBrennan]

The original games did not run on modern operating systems (I recall spending hours looking for the save games because BG2 had to be run as admin while ToB had to be run as a regular user to pass copy protection) because back then programmers had not yet learned how to program. This was undeniably a worthwhile effort which was completely beyond the scope of what mods can do.

The new NPCs and quests were perhaps less necessary. When I forced myself to engage with the new content I have found it to be exceptionally buggy (e.g. your party disappearing completely when you travel to the wild magic forest in BG2)

Yeah it was unnecessary, but it's not too bad if you just want new things to kill and new places to explore. It also has some of the biggest battles out of all the Infinity Engine games, if you're into that kinda thing. The story is truly garbage tho.

But it's not new things to kill - it's just heavily nerfed reused late game BG2/early ToB assets. It's completely ridiculous for the player party to go from killing dopplegangers in BG1, to killing mindflayers, giants, dragons and liches in SoD and then back to killing goblins in BG2.

Also, the big fights are a big problem with SOD - the combat log works if you have 5 combatants per side. It does not work if you spawn 50 combatants to fight fight off-screen. They should have looked at what the engine can support and designed the game around that instead of wrecking the game to create "cinematic" battles.

[MidnaFeetEnjoyer]

There's a lot to love about EE and a lot to hate. Bad npc, bad writing, unnecessary nerfs and changes, bad coding, after so many years bugs still come and go.. and come again. I don't know what's up there but it feels like nobody's getting paid. Which is most likely the case, since the game is so old, getting hype for massive sales wasn't realistic, idk. But it's like someone just puts some of their free time on the game from now and then to work on it, and regardless of their skill and effort.. it is what it is- not impressive. A "C+" or "B-" at best. Overall I love EE when I play with my MUST HAVE mods that bring back old og bg movies, sounds like casting chants, weapon hitting sounds, proper tavern music etc, for it to be replayable for me.
Outside of trilogy things(that makes bg1 run on bg2 engine and some bg2 rules) like weapon proficiencies, as well as bug fixes, I want beamdog to revert everything they changed back to how bg1ToSC was. Specifically- spell/item/class balance, sounds and area music, movies to name some. I dread the day they do something retarded again, like changing elemental arrows balance to that of bg2 or nerfing summons again. Just stick to bug fixes, content in DLC's and we're good.. but right now - very mixed feelings.

[Messsucher]

Originally posted by demonknight:

There's a lot to love about EE and a lot to hate. Bad npc, bad writing, unnecessary nerfs and changes, bad coding, after so many years bugs still come and go.. and come again. I don't know what's up there but it feels like nobody's getting paid. Which is most likely the case, since the game is so old, getting hype for massive sales wasn't realistic, idk. But it's like someone just puts some of their free time on the game from now and then to work on it, and regardless of their skill and effort.. it is what it is- not impressive. A "C+" or "B-" at best. Overall I love EE when I play with my MUST HAVE mods that bring back old og bg movies, sounds like casting chants, weapon hitting sounds, proper tavern music etc, for it to be replayable for me.
Outside of trilogy things(that makes bg1 run on bg2 engine and some bg2 rules) like weapon proficiencies, as well as bug fixes, I want beamdog to revert everything they changed back to how bg1ToSC was. Specifically- spell/item/class balance, sounds and area music, movies to name some. I dread the day they do something retarded again, like changing elemental arrows balance to that of bg2 or nerfing summons again. Just stick to bug fixes, content in DLC's and we're good.. but right now - very mixed feelings.

Haha, yeah, had forgotten most of those things you mentioned, have to say it is almost a new game with the same story, like a remake of sorts lol.

[Nickname0329]

Neera is pretty immersion breaking. Her dialogue is so modern that she just breaks the tone of the story. She'd fit in something like Evil Dead 3: Army of Darkness, but Baldur's Gate's stakes are relatively grounded and so she just doesn't fit. Also I think she's pretty self interested and a better fit for Chaotic Evil than Neutral.

Rasaad thematically just feels so foreign, the influence clearly eastern which just puts it out of sync with the rest of the game which is western fantasy. A story about a bunch of fallen order monks lead by a the protagonist's evil brother is just so cliche that you just roll your eyes playing it. Playing the cliche straight is just unforgivable.

I personally liked Dorn in BG1 though. His quests are easy, along the path you were going to take anyways. As someone who didn't play the original, I didn't peg him immediately as an outsider like I did with Neera and Rasaad. He also doesn't feel like he's vying for the spotlight like Neera and Rassad.

I also liked Baeloth, though I understand his character was borrowed from the Black Pits which is probably why it feels fine.

I'm playing through SoD now and I'd heard previously that the writing was bad, but I didn't take it seriously because of how much of it seemed to focus around the trans character which is ridiculous.

However I'm a couple hours into SoD now and the writing is just horrendous. I'm holding off on a review right now in the case that it improves, but to have writing be outpaced by a game that came out 15 years previously seems embarrassing.

[Gustuv Wynd]

I didn't buy the EE for a long time...I had the original...with the Tutu mod...and thought it wasn't that big of a deal. Then BG2EE came out and learned of the loot bar and I think I had the EE version of BG 1 and 2 in my steam library in less than 60 seconds.