Am I Stuck in Candlekeep?

[K33n3r]

I just started the game, and I decided to kill a few guards for their armor. The entire town turned on me, so I eventually slaughtered almost everybody in Candlekeep. Now Gorion kills me on sight and there appears to be no way out of the starting town. Am I hardlocked out of the game? I kind of want to keep all my hard earned goodies D:

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

There are alternative methods of discouraging script breaking actions, as nearly every open rpg released within the last 10 years have shown.

Baldur's Gate is almost 23 years old and doesn't try to serve everything on a silver plate. In a nutshell, death of main player character = game over. That's it for this game.

CRPGs have come a long way from the era before the BG series. Players trying to exploit implementation and design, attacking friendly story NPCs and/or trying to get them killed by beasts, game designers introducing invulnerable story NPCs as a counter-measure.

Messaggio originale di stef.corsi:

Again, you are answering without understanding what I'm saying. I was talkin about trying to find a solution AFTER that the story got bugged, no before.

Not enough input for discussion. It is a game where one can save manually. There is absolutely no reason to insist on making enemies so early and not simply returning to a previous savegame file as to avoid highly dubious actions and mistakes. If player wants to explore the limits of evil actions, then by all means, do so, but why this topic? Gorion can be visited early, player can save at that point, decide to return to theft and murder and evaluate the consequences. If everyone in Candlekeep turns against Gorion's ward, it is much too obvious that this will be a dead end.

Messaggio originale di stef.corsi:

So, this is a basic rule of game programming: you can advance or you die, otherwise is a program mistake.

I don't favor enforcing game over condition. It is a role-playing game, and player ought to think more carefully about choices and actions. You talk about doing something to create a mess and trying to solve it. If friendly NPCs turn hostile and attack, that is reason to reconsider your actions, reload and act differently. Not to continue playing, increasing the mess and making a big fuss in a forum - about the very beginning of a game where one doesn't spend two hours in Candlekeep anyway.

[K33n3r]

Messaggio originale di OldManBanjo:

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

I'm used to playing a game like Divinity where you are free to play the game however you want, and other characters don't judge your actions to the point of making the game literally unplayable.

This is why I absolutely despise the Divinity games and BG3. I couldn't have summed it up better myself - thank you.

Yes, you are totally screwed. BG/BG2 are genuine RPGs. Your choices have consequences and you canjust break the story line completely. Murder your stepfather and major plot point five minutes into the game, yeah... good job. You cannot murder-hobo your way through old school Black Isle titles the way Larian seem to so encourage you to.

Basically ask yourself "If I do this, would IRL the DM kick me out of the party and never invite me over again?" If the answer is 'yes' it will probably break a Black Isle plot line. Which is the digital version of getting kicked out of the game.

No problem man, I got you. I never killed my step-father by the way, he just kills me on sight for defending myself against the guards. I think consequences for my evil deeds are great, I just wish it was in the form of the guards being too powerful for me to handle and getting killed right then and there, instead of my freshly created character being able to steamroll the opposition in what is supposedly one of the most well defended cities in the land. The result is me wasting 2 hours cleaning the town up in save file that is essentially bugged. It could have been programmed better, though overall I really like the game so far.

Also, I've never played D&D with a DM and all that, so the last point is lost on me.

[K33n3r]

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

There are alternative methods of discouraging script breaking actions, as nearly every open rpg released within the last 10 years have shown.

Baldur's Gate is almost 23 years old and doesn't try to serve everything on a silver plate. In a nutshell, death of main player character = game over. That's it for this game.

Dude, I wish the game would have just killed me, it would have saved me a lot of time. Instead I was stuck in a town with no hope of escape. I got a full time job, a wife... I don't like my time being wasted.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

Not enough input for discussion. It is a game where one can save manually....and evaluate the consequences.

Again and again :), did anyone disagree with this? No. :P

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

If everyone in Candlekeep turns against Gorion's ward, it is much too obvious that this will be a dead end.

Probably not so obvious since it wasn't for the OP and it isn't in other situations during the game.

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

It is a role-playing game, and player ought to think more carefully about choices and actions. You talk about doing something to create a mess and trying to solve it. If friendly NPCs turn hostile and attack, that is reason to reconsider your actions, reload and act differently. Not to continue playing, increasing the mess and making a big fuss in a forum - about the very beginning of a game where one doesn't spend two hours in Candlekeep anyway.

Is there another RPG game that works like this?
And also if this is the case, why doesn't it happen in many other situations in game where you're prevented from messing up the primary story?

[rompier02]

Hi. Just curious why kill the guards for the armor? Can basically get out the city with Gorion without them.

[Hell-met]

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

I got a full time job, a wife... I don't like my time being wasted.

ooh there it is

big man big life, plays a 23 year old title incorrectly and doesn't want his time wasted

[K33n3r]

Messaggio originale di rompier02:

Hi. Just curious why kill the guards for the armor? Can basically get out the city with Gorion without them.

I dunno, because I can I guess. It was fun.

[K33n3r]

Messaggio originale di Hell-met:

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

I got a full time job, a wife... I don't like my time being wasted.

ooh there it is

big man big life, plays a 23 year old title incorrectly and doesn't want his time wasted

I don't believe you can play a game incorrectly. That is my philosophy.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

No problem man, I got you. I never killed my step-father by the way, he just kills me on sight for defending myself against the guards.

I don't know in the prologue, but this seems to depend on low reputation that you can raise with offers to a temple (but it requests too much money to be done at the very beginning).

[Pille]

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

I don't favor enforcing game over condition. It is a role-playing game, and player ought to think more carefully about choices and actions. You talk about doing something to create a mess and trying to solve it. If friendly NPCs turn hostile and attack, that is reason to reconsider your actions, reload and act differently. Not to continue playing, increasing the mess and making a big fuss in a forum - about the very beginning of a game where one doesn't spend two hours in Candlekeep anyway.

Was it really the OP who made 'a big fuss' here? I don't think so, nor do I understand why people are still trying to prove they are right or want to have the last word. The thread was a fun read (to me) but the OP's question has already been answered / his point of view has been discussed ... so I wonder what this is all about anymore?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

Dude, I wish the game would have just killed me, it would have saved me a lot of time. Instead I was stuck in a town with no hope of escape. I got a full time job, a wife... I don't like my time being wasted.

Seriously? And you wasted two hours in Candlekeep tutorial area when you could simply talk to Gorion and continue with the story?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Messaggio originale di Pille:

Was it really the OP who made 'a big fuss' here?

Yep. Opening this topic and starting to dance in replies.

[rompier02]

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

Messaggio originale di rompier02:

Hi. Just curious why kill the guards for the armor? Can basically get out the city with Gorion without them.

I dunno, because I can I guess. It was fun.

I see. Thanks for the honesty. Man good luck in your next play if you make any. Play it how you want to. If you having fun go for it. That what really matters for me.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Messaggio originale di OldManBanjo:

Basically ask yourself "If I do this, would IRL the DM kick me out of the party and never invite me over again?" If the answer is 'yes' it will probably break a Black Isle plot line. Which is the digital version of getting kicked out of the game.

Players playing live D&D generally do not pull this kind of crap because they know the DM is omnipotent and will slap their dinghy good if they do. At least the ones I play with do not. I can guarantee you that were I the DM and someone played it this way, the guards would have had the most uncanny run of critical hits you've ever seem, and the offender would be spending the rest of the night fetching pretzels and beer for the rest of the players,

Then we would have a little talk as to whether that player would be allowed to create a new character and rejoin the adventure.

That is one thing I liked about this game when it came out and one thing I still like -- It is as if the invisible hand of the DM is there, giving consequences to both good decisions and bad.

And in this case, the player made some bad decisions and the DM responded.

[K33n3r]

Messaggio originale di D'amarr from Darshiva:

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

Dude, I wish the game would have just killed me, it would have saved me a lot of time. Instead I was stuck in a town with no hope of escape. I got a full time job, a wife... I don't like my time being wasted.

Seriously? And you wasted two hours in Candlekeep tutorial area when you could simply talk to Gorion and continue with the story?

I always like to explore every area fully, and do any main quest segments last. It bit me in the butt in this case, haha.

Messaggio originale di rompier02:

Messaggio originale di K33n3r:

I dunno, because I can I guess. It was fun.

I see. Thanks for the honesty. Man good luck in your next play if you make any. Play it how you want to. If you having fun go for it. That what really matters for me.

Thanks buddy, I sure plan to!