Polymorphing Sarevok

[Amaterasu]

Can you use the wand of Polymorphing to turn Sarevok into a squirrel and then... just I dunno... kill him?

Edit: I'm playing a Cleric and I have access to the spell Doom, which would make him take a -2 penalty to Saving Throws. Meaning I'd have a 10% chance of success, but is it possible?

[Sstavix]

Looking at his stats, he does not have an immunity to polymorph. However, he does have extremely high saving throws, so getting it to land might be tricky.

I do know that sleep, hold person and feeblemind work on him. You can try those as well.

[Psychotic_Frog]

The wand is blocked by magic resistance, but Sarevok has 100% MR only in the original Baldur's Gate (without TotSC and not the EE version).

So if you're playing the EE / TotSC it can work. This thread seems to also confirm it: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/82468/wand-of-polymorph-is-great

[wendigo211]

Better hope he doesn't escape. If he teams up with the Chinchilla from ToB, who knows what trouble they could get up to. No one's ankles will be safe!

On topic, yes he can be polymorphed. I think he can be petrified with Chromatic Orb too.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I do know that sleep, hold person and feeblemind work on him. You can try those as well.

The spell Sleep doesn't work on him (HD limit), but its bigger cousin Emotion: Hopelessness does. I imagine Command would work, although, with the 1 round duration, I never tried it.

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Better hope he doesn't escape. If he teams up with the Chinchilla from ToB, who knows what trouble they could get up to. No one's ankles will be safe!

On topic, yes he can be polymorphed. I think he can be petrified with Chromatic Orb too.

Sweet, I'm going to turn him into a squirrel!

[Godsarm]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Better hope he doesn't escape. If he teams up with the Chinchilla from ToB, who knows what trouble they could get up to. No one's ankles will be safe!

On topic, yes he can be polymorphed. I think he can be petrified with Chromatic Orb too.

That's funny right there. It's like the Killer Rabbit from Monty Python...

[Peter]

I'm not sure about the Wand of polymorphing. Many common opponents can save vs polymorph. However if you play as a Transmuter, it's a bit different. You can turn almost anyone into a squirrel, even bosses. Transmuter is a very funny mage.

[Psychotic_Frog]

Originally posted by Peter:

I'm not sure about the Wand of polymorphing. Many common opponents can save vs polymorph.

It's a save vs wands to negate the effect.

[philos3]

Also Greater Malison will lower his saving throws by 4. There is no save for it. I do not know if it would stack with Doom. But it'd be pretty potent if it did. Your Cleric throws Doom and your Mage casts Greater Malison.

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by philos3:

Also Greater Malison will lower his saving throws by 4. There is no save for it. I do not know if it would stack with Doom. But it'd be pretty potent if it did. Your Cleric throws Doom and your Mage casts Greater Malison.

Dynaheir is my mage, can't use it. Only one I'd carry around that could is Neera and after her raining exploding cows on the entirety of Ulgoth's beard in a fight... she isn't part of my parties anymore. I went from 20 Reputation to 1 in a single magic missile attempt.

[Psychotic_Frog]

Originally posted by philos3:

Also Greater Malison will lower his saving throws by 4. There is no save for it. I do not know if it would stack with Doom. But it'd be pretty potent if it did. Your Cleric throws Doom and your Mage casts Greater Malison.

Wat? Greater Malison is a -4 penalty in the EE? It's supposed to be -2: https://i.imgur.com/6KIGXgg.png

Beamdog really can't stop skul­lfuc­king the game's balance lmao absolute clowns

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

Dynaheir is my mage, can't use it.

Probably another undesired change in the EE.
In the real version of BG1 it was 100% possible: https://i.imgur.com/ks8xG8g.png

That followed what's in the BG1 manual which simply states
"They are prohibited from learning spells in their opposition schools, and cannot be combined in a multiclass character" (specifically _learning_, not "using a scroll")
And also the Sage Advice that was published on that subject (https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg152.pdf) which clarifies it further:

"Can specialist wizards use scroll spells from opposition schools? Can clerics use scroll spells from outside their spheres?
A character who can use spells can use a scroll if it matches his class, so priests can. use scroll spells from outside their spheres and wizards can use scroll spells from outside their schools."

[philos3]

@Psychotic_Frog

Here is the description form the BG Manual:
Greater Malison
4th-level Enchantment
Range: Visual range of the caster
Duration: 2 rounds/level
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: Up to 60-foot cube
Saving Throw: None
The spell allows the caster to adversely affect all the Saving
Throws of his enemies. The effect is applied to all hostile
creatures within the area of effect. Opponents under the
influence of this spell make all Saving Throws at a penalty
of –4.
Are you thinking of 5th edition perhaps? I do not have my 2nd edition books handy but I believe that the spell always was -4 (in 2nd edition).

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Psychotic_Frog:

Originally posted by philos3:

Also Greater Malison will lower his saving throws by 4. There is no save for it. I do not know if it would stack with Doom. But it'd be pretty potent if it did. Your Cleric throws Doom and your Mage casts Greater Malison.

Wat? Greater Malison is a -4 penalty in the EE? It's supposed to be -2: https://i.imgur.com/6KIGXgg.png

Beamdog really can't stop skul­lfuc­king the game's balance lmao absolute clowns

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

Dynaheir is my mage, can't use it.

Probably another undesired change in the EE.
In the real version of BG1 it was 100% possible: https://i.imgur.com/ks8xG8g.png

That followed what's in the BG1 manual which simply states
"They are prohibited from learning spells in their opposition schools, and cannot be combined in a multiclass character" (specifically _learning_, not "using a scroll")
And also the Sage Advice that was published on that subject (https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg152.pdf) which clarifies it further:

"Can specialist wizards use scroll spells from opposition schools? Can clerics use scroll spells from outside their spheres?
A character who can use spells can use a scroll if it matches his class, so priests can. use scroll spells from outside their spheres and wizards can use scroll spells from outside their schools."

I could check if it can work real quick.

Edit: Used an old save, yeah, it's a no go.

[Psychotic_Frog]

Originally posted by philos3:

@Psychotic_Frog

Here is the description form the BG Manual:
Greater Malison
4th-level Enchantment
Range: Visual range of the caster
Duration: 2 rounds/level
Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: Up to 60-foot cube
Saving Throw: None
The spell allows the caster to adversely affect all the Saving
Throws of his enemies. The effect is applied to all hostile
creatures within the area of effect. Opponents under the
influence of this spell make all Saving Throws at a penalty
of –4.
Are you thinking of 5th edition perhaps? I do not have my 2nd edition books handy but I believe that the spell always was -4 (in 2nd edition).

Are you dumb, it doesn't even exist in the 5e. Re-read my post.

As I said, in the EE it's the ret­arded unbalanced version of the spell which is at -4. If you're reading the EE version of the manual, of course it's written -4 dude.

For the original game, I literally screenshotted it, it is -2 that is intended for BG1.
The (original TotSC) manual also (obviously) states it is -2, in accordance to the game: https://i.imgur.com/3DntbU0.png

The tabletop D&D2e version also describes it as -2: https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Greater_Malison_(Wizard_Spell)

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

I could check if it can work real quick.

Edit: Used an old save, yeah, it's a no go.

RIP. Blame beamdog's changes

But you should be good with Doom nonetheless.

[philos3]

@psychotic_frog
Getting rude is unnecessary.

I did read your post and yes I did miss opening your 1st link. I opened the 2nd and was blocked by Steam from opening the one to annarchive. I obviously had a misconception about original pre-EE BG1 version of GM. If my 2nd edition books weren't boxed up I would been able to better check.

However my misconception was not because of the EE version of the guide. I did not have the TotSC manual to reference. So I defaulted to the one I had on hand. Wrong choice.

My misconception came from how the spell works in BG2 and that includes the original pre-EE game. I was unaware that the spell was more limited in BG1. Here is the original version from the original BG2 manual which I do have:

Greater Malison (Enchantment/Charm)
Range: Sight of Caster
Casting Time: 4
Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 30-foot radius
Duration: 2 rounds/level
The spell allows the caster to adversely affect all the saving throws of
his enemies. The effect is applied to all hostile creature within the area
of effect. Opponents under the influence of this spell make all saving
throws at a penalty of -4.
A particularly potent way of ensuring your next few spells will have
maximum effect. - Elminster

It reads pretty much the same as the EE guide. I seem to recall reading that when making the EE Beamdog wanted to have better continuity and reworked spells to perform the same in both games. They obviously decided to up Greater Malison to the BG2 version rather than the BG1 version.

As to 5th edition, I am still in the early learning stages of it, so my question was really more to learn than make a comment. Pardon my ignorance.