Druid Shapshifter Stats

[Aziraal]

So, I made a Human Druid Shapshifter and was wondering what was the best way to spec him? Do I want STR or WIS? etc, etc. I've read around and it says the Werewolf form gives you 19 STR and something else. I got a 90 on my roll so I was wondering where to spend it.,

[Aziraal]

So the primary stats for a Shapeshiffter are DEX, CON, WIS, and possible STR while CHAR gets shorted?

[DnD Detective]

Publicado originalmente por Loki, God of Asgard:

So the primary stats for a Shapeshiffter are DEX, CON, WIS, and possible STR while CHAR gets shorted?

Dexterity and constitution are recommended for any character really. But yea that looks good. If you have to lower your strength then that isn't too big of a deal (since your form gives you 19 strength). Try to get 8 or 9 intelligence if possible but if you can't get that then its not the end of the world.

[Cliford]

It is not necessary to have a werewolf with high CHAR.

[Aziraal]

Publicado originalmente por kamster99:

Publicado originalmente por Loki, God of Asgard:

So the primary stats for a Shapeshiffter are DEX, CON, WIS, and possible STR while CHAR gets shorted?

Dexterity and constitution are recommended for any character really. But yea that looks good. If you have to lower your strength then that isn't too big of a deal (since your form gives you 19 strength). Try to get 8 or 9 intelligence if possible but if you can't get that then its not the end of the world.

Why so low of INT?

Publicado originalmente por gtmake:

It is not necessary to have a werewolf with high CHAR.

How come?

Also, how long does one stay in Werewolf form? It doesn't say. Does it stay until you click the button to revert back? If so, should I just stay in wolf form?

[Cliford]

I think features should not be changed, so in human form would not need to have an elf CHAR

[DnD Detective]

Publicado originalmente por Loki, God of Asgard:

Publicado originalmente por kamster99:

Dexterity and constitution are recommended for any character really. But yea that looks good. If you have to lower your strength then that isn't too big of a deal (since your form gives you 19 strength). Try to get 8 or 9 intelligence if possible but if you can't get that then its not the end of the world.

Why so low of INT?

Publicado originalmente por gtmake:

It is not necessary to have a werewolf with high CHAR.

How come?

Also, how long does one stay in Werewolf form? It doesn't say. Does it stay until you click the button to revert back? If so, should I just stay in wolf form?

I was just being conservative with that number. If you can put more towards intelligence then that works too.

You stay in werewolf form until you choose to leave it. That includes after you've rested.

[Aziraal]

So it would be more denifcal to stay in wolf form than human if I want to buff up the other stats (CHAR, WIS)?

[Hentaru]

It all depends on what you are doing. Just change form as necessary depending on current circumstance. There's a good chance you will spend a lot of combat/running around time in animal form while mostly changing to human (or whatever) for spells and such. Sometimes that means human, cast spells, switch to animal, engage combat, switch again if necessary etc. I'm sure there are specific patterns/techniques that are considered "best" but just play around with it and find your own groove.

You are really just maxing WIS for the extra spells (which are pretty important and can make a big difference).

Also remember that wolf form gives 19 STR/500lb carry weight so you might find yourself running around/zoning like that to carry extra stuff.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

The left half is what a werewolf and greater werewolf actually have. When you shapeshift, you become a typical variation of that creature. The shapeshifter in BG was a heavily gimped version of what it should've been if it was transforming into a werewolf.

Now that said...I would've MUCH rather they did the PnP accurate Shapeshifter.

You gain the ability to wild shape at lvl 1, and can do so as often as you like, but if you use it more then 1 per day per 3 levels (starting at level 1 with one use), you have to make a save or be stuck in your transformed state for 24 hours, after which you must save again or permamently become that shape (you can still shapeshift into other animals as normal, but are unable to assume humanoid forms and would be unable to cast spells). Your shapeshifts also last until you choose to dismiss them, unlike that of normal druids.

At lvl 6, you gain the ability to partially transform your body for 1 hour instead of fully wild-shaping, allowing you to gain the benefits of a wild shape while retaining your gear bonuses and spell-casting. Grants the attacks modes and physical stats of whatever form you were replicating. As an example, if you partially shaped into a bear, you'd gain the physical stats of one, their number of attacks (only applies to unarmed attacks), base armor class, and your natural attacks would become the same as a bear, but you could still use weapons if they were better or benefit from enchanted items.

Unable to use armor.

(What normal druids get with regard to shapeshift. At lvl 6, you can assume a Mammal, Avian, or reptile form, once per day each. This form can only be of natural creatures and grants the physical capabilities and qualities of a typical member of that species. All gear you were wearing ceases to function and is subsumed into the shape)

---------------------

Of course, they also need to work on improving the shapeshift forms in general. Druid shapeshifting in PnP is powerful because the forms give a LOT of versatility, and not because they're physically powerful. Druids are more like the divine equivilent of Bards, with their shapeshifting allowing them to fill a wide variety of roles while their spells are more support/healing in nature, most of which have limited areas of application. In BG though, they're just an inferior in every way cleric with a lot more restrictions and abilities that are basically never useful.

Bears = High strength and powerful general combat abilities (gains a bonus when grappling and can choose to maul the target, dealing 2d4 piercing damage automatically each round the grapple is maintained)
Wolves = Can perform trip manuvors and are very fast
Panthers = Stealthy and when attacking in a surprise round can pin a target with a grapple, mauling them.
Birds = Can fly and scout around large areas. Can make fast pecking attracts at a creatures eyes to blind them.
Mice = Extremely stealthy and easy to overlook and get into small places.
Snakes = Depend on the variety either has a poisoned bite (result based on the snake variety) or can grapple and constrict a target dealing 1d4+str bonus in blunt damage each round.
Alligators = Can hold their breath for long periods, strong swimming ability, better stealth in aquatic enviroments, powerful attack.

[Aziraal]

Publicado originalmente por kamster99:

Publicado originalmente por Loki, God of Asgard:

Really? Would you happen to know what the Werewolf form gives?
From what I read this is what it does.

"For a normal werewolf:
You Were Supposed to Receive........You Actually Received...
Base magic resistance 20%...............Magic resistance locked at 20%
Immunity to normal weapons...........Nothing
Paw does 1d12 slashing damage.......Paw does 1d6 piercing damage


For the greater werewolf:
You Were Supposed to Receive..........You Actually Received...
THAC0 of 6.......................................Nothing
Saves 1/1/1/2/1................................Nothing
Base elemental resistance of 50%........Elemental resistance locked at 50%
Base magic resistance of 40%.............Magic resistance locked at 40%
Immunity to normal weapons.............Nothing
Paw is +3 weapon.............................Paw is +2 weapon
Paw does 2d8 slashing damage..........Paw does 1d6 piercing damage
Regeneration of 3 HP per second.......Nothing"

Mind you, this could be wrong now. This was a post 2 year ago.

The right half of the tables is somewhat accurate though it doesn't mention things like any APR (attack per round) boost or AC boost. With the regular werewolf you also get 2 APR, 19 strength, 16 dexterity, and 1 AC. Also its wrong about the elemental resistances being locked.

The left half of the table is by-in-large intended to balance the kit in BG2 for a mod called Tactics (the mod increases the difficulty of the game). Its not at all applicable to BGEE because to give immunity to normal weapons for instance to the werewolf form would likely make it immune to the vast majority of weapons and creatures in BGEE. Likewise giving 18 health/round (3hp/second) regeneration for the greater werewolf in BG2EE would make a lot of fights in the game trivial.

Also as I wrote above the original developers never have stated what their intentions were when it came to the kit. Most of the things mentioned in the "supposed to recieve" category are either speculative or they are just looking to apply bonuses in a way that is totally different than how shapeshifting in the game has worked.

So for the delayed response, so what is the current buffs to the kit as of BGEE one and two? I can't seem to tell unless I test it. And looking aroud online all I get is mods to make it better. I dunno,

[kaiyl_kariashi]

It's not to balance anything. IT's simply what you're supposed to have if you shapeshift into a WW or GWW. When you shapeshift, you become a typical representation of the creature you shapeshift into, so therefore, if you shapeshift into a Werewolf or Greater Werewolf, you are SUPPOSED to get all the standard benefits. Which why no DM in their right mind would ever allow this version of the kit to exist.

Choosing to even have the shapeshifter work like that was a huge mistake, and it would've made more sense to give them the Avenger's Forms (while removing the Avenger's shapeshifting entirely, since their improved spell-casting is already over-powered for the non-penalty they recieve) and allow them to shapeshift from level 1.

BUT...

It would've been even better to simply go back and look at what made Druid shapeshifting cool in PnP and buff the versatility of the shapeshift forms to better represent the jack-of-all-trades nature of what their shapeshifting allows in PnP. I gave an in-depth post on the sorts of overhauls the Druids in general need on the official forums which got a lot of support, but unfortunately, it's outside of Beamdog's contract terms.

Druids in general unfortunately are probably the most gimped class in the game, with bards a close 2nd. And making the classes closer to their PnP incarnations is in almost every case a HUGE buff, where as most Pnp-fications lower a class/kits relative power. Druids are in the current game an utterly inferior in every way Cleric, and even the Avenger, which is completely broken from a mechanical standpoint due to all it's bonuses and non-penalty over the regular druid, can barely convince anyone to even try it.

The totemic is kind of in the middle...it's weaker then it's PnP incarnation by A LOT...but mechanically is somewhat balanced...if BG's normal shapeshifting wasn't completely worthless to begin with.

[Aziraal]

So don't be a Druid in BGEE2?

[ShinsFortress]

No, *be* a Druid in either BG:EE or BG2:EE if you wish. All classes are viable, even Bard. Will a Druid be the most powerful? Probably not. But with clever play completing both games is not too difficult, especially if you choose your NPC cohorts wisely.

If a Druid/Shapeshifter is fun for you, play it. Are you playing Excel: Enhanced Edition, or are you *playing* Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition?

[Aziraal]

I'm playing BG:EE.

[DnD Detective]

Publicado originalmente por Loki, God of Asgard:

So for the delayed response, so what is the current buffs to the kit as of BGEE one and two? I can't seem to tell unless I test it. And looking aroud online all I get is mods to make it better. I dunno,

Werewolf

1d6 piercing damage (+7 damage from strength bonus)
1 AC (-1 with dexterity bonus)
2 attacks per round
19 strength
16 dexterity
20 % fixed magic resistance. (fixed meaning that you can't change it even if you are wearing items that grant a magic resistance bonus)

Greater Werewolf

1d6 piercing damage (+9 damage from strength bonus)
- 6 AC (-10 with dexterity bonus)
3 attacks per round
21 strength
20 dexterity
50% fire resistance
50% cold resistance
40% fixed magic resistance.