Solo Dragon Disciple BG1 Questions

[Desiani]

So I am looking to play the game (mostly) solo as a dragon disciple sorcerer mostly because I loved the class in 3.5/pathfinder and want to experience this version! I've not played much of the game but have watched a few reviews and read a few guides but I have a question that confuses me terribly.

Every build guide I've read mentions that I should dump Charisma entirely because of the'Ring of human influence.' Almost every guide that I have read doesn't make mention of WHICH BG they are talking about but the dumping of Cha because of that ring is in almost all of the 5 or so solo guides I have skimmed through.

After some google fu... the wiki says this particular ring is ONLY in bg2ee. So my question is, if I plan on going solo dragon disciple from BG1 and its DLC and bringing it back into BG2 and its DLCs... Do I still dump charisma or is there another Ring of human influence within BG1 that I am oblivious of?

All guides seem rather competently written but I'm looking specifically for bg1 soloing to start and all guides appear to assume a bg2 start where this particular ring is... freely available.

Any advice from people?

[Sstavix]

I seem to remember having the ring of human influence in BG1, and being able to get it fairly early in the game. I can look up the location later, if you don't mind the spoilers.

However, I don't think the sorcerer is a Charisma-based caster in these Baldur's Gate games. Like other classes from 3rd edition, they were shoehorned in when Beamdog did the Enhanced Edition, and they may not play like you think or expect. I used a Dragon Disciple in one of my play throughs as well, but I think she was Int-based, being a subset of the wizard class.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I seem to remember having the ring of human influence in BG1, and being able to get it fairly early in the game. I can look up the location later, if you don't mind the spoilers.

However, I don't think the sorcerer is a Charisma-based caster in these Baldur's Gate games. Like other classes from 3rd edition, they were shoehorned in when Beamdog did the Enhanced Edition, and they may not play like you think or expect. I used a Dragon Disciple in one of my play throughs as well, but I think she was Int-based, being a subset of the wizard class.

Early BG2.

[wendigo211]

Sorcerers don't have a DC stat in this game. For that matter, none of the classes have a DC stat, since saving throws are handled differently. Wisdom matters for Clerics and Druids because it gives them bonus spells. Int matters for Bards and Wizards because it affects their chances to learn spells from scrolls and limits the number of spells per level they can have scribed.

For Shamans and Sorcerers, none of the stats affect their casting. They still want an Int over 9 to use scrolls and wands though.

The Wish spells also have some ability requirements you might want to look up.

[luftatmer]

As others already mentioned there is no "ring of human influence" in BG1. In vanilla BGEE, that is. However, a very well known mod brings it into the game (must have mod in my personal eyes).

"The BG1 NPC Project"
https://www.gibberlings3.net/mods/npcs/bg1npc/

Other than that what others have already written above is true: Charisma is more or less superfluous. It changes prices in shops, yes. And in some incidents with a very high Charisma stat NPCs are giving you better rewards for solved quests and such. But these are no game changers.

Anyway, there is a bit of a "work around". The first level spell "Friends" increases your Charisma by 6 points for a short time. One could argue that this spell is worth a slot.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Friends

Additional to that: There is a tome in BG1 that increases your Charisma Stat by 1 point permanently.

edit: spelling

[Nooneyouknow]

Sorcerer exists as a back port from 3e, so it doesn't really play with the stat system correctly at all in BG. Past that, Dragon Disciple is actually worse than baseline sorcerer. The DD's con bonuses don't grant it more HP per level past 16 con still, so at best it's granting so minor regen. Getting a D6 hit die instead of a D4 is only relevant until 4th level spells, because of Stone Skin. The AC and fire resistance are decent, but not worth losing a spell slot of every level for. And the Breath Weapon also isn't worth losing a spell slot of every level for.

All of that said, it's certainly viable still, and far from the worst class/kit in the game.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Desiani:

Any advice from people?

What difficulty setting?

What's the incentive to choose a dragon disciple when soloing the two games? If you only want to solo them, there are more attractive classes, kits and multi-class/dual-class combinations.

Also, what base attributes do you have in mind anyway? You could roll your starting attributes with a lot of passion and deliberately without cheating. Then, with many attribute points to spend, what would be your goals? You don't need to dump CHA, you could also reduce STR and WIS. Particularly, since you will be the only character to use the various Tomes in the games that grant permanent attribute bonuses.

[Sstavix]

I must have been thinking of Algernon's Cloak, which gives +2 to Charisma. On my bard, that must have given her an 18 Charisma, so I mistakenly thought I gave her a ring of human influence. My bad.

[Elrion]

Here's some basic advice for attributes:

STRENGTH: As a Dragon Disciple, you will only rarely rely on physical weapon attacks. However, particularly if you play solo, low STR will be very inconvenient because of limited carrying capacity. My advice would be to max it for convenience.

DEXTERITY: Dexterity increases your armor class, and the Dragon Disciple gets additional armor class bonuses, so it's certainly useful to max it.

CONSTITUTION: There are two schools of thought here. One possibility is to aim for a final value of 16, as values higher than 16 do not give your Dragon Disciple any additional hit points. For instance, you could start with a value of 14, so that you will reach 16 when you get the CON tome and your first class-based constitution point. However, if you have spare attribute points, a second possibility is to maximize constitution, so that, at high levels, you reach a very high CON score. This does not give you any additional hit points, but does give you a bit of natural hit point regeneration. Natural regeneration in Baldurs Gate (even with 25 CON) is very slow and thus nearly irrelevant in combat. However, you will be back to full health whenever you travel from one map to another. which is useful for convenience in solo play.

INTELLIGENCE: Intelligence is somewhat relevant when you're fighting Mindflayers in BG2, whose attacks damage your INT (and you die when you reach INT 0). However, even with low INT, you can address this by boosting your INT with potions before these specific fights. INT is also a requirement for using a small number of specific items, such as the Golem Manual in BG2 (which requires 15 INT).

WISDOM: Wisdom affects your choice of wishes when you cast the Wish spell in BG2. This is particularly relevant because you need a WIS score of 18 for a chance to get the very powerful Rest option when casting Wish. If you play BG1, you could start with a WIS score of 15, so that you reach 18 with the 3 tomes you can find in BG1. Note that a WIS score even higher than 18 does not give you anything useful at all, so as long as you play the entire trilogy, there is no point starting with a WIS score higher than 15. All that said, you can also temporarily boost your WIS with potions before you cast WISH, so while WIS is useful for convenience, it is not strictly necessary.

CHARISMA: Charisma of the group leader influences prices when you buy items from vendors, and also a couple of interactions. For instance, it gives you slightly better rewards for specific completed quests in BG1. It is true that, early in BG2, you get a ring which sets CHA to 18. However, if you already start with a natural CHA of 18 and then use the tome from BG1 (and additional permanent bonusses in BG2 and ToB), you can get a natural Charisma higher than 18, and thus reach values which the ring does not allow you to reach. Thus, it is usually advisable to either use CHA as a dump stat (and then put on the ring whenever you need CHA), or to maximize it. If you go for the low CHA option, note that vendor prices can also be reduced by casting Friends on the vendor. (As a side not, some experienced players argue that CHA also affects conflicts between companions, but this is controversially discussed in the community. If you play solo, this is gonna be irrelevant for you anyway.)

Hope this helps. All the best for your run.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Soloing the game I would play with 18 cha from the beginning in order to have better prices in the shops. And I would not waste a ring slot only to boost charisma: there are better rings. Furthermore playing solo I would reroll until I get a 90+, that is
18 18 18 9 9+ 18.

[philos3]

The ring "Evermemory" is a great item to acquire (there are 2 in BG 1). One can be found early in the game. This ring, although designed for mages, works for sorcerers and doubles the number of 1st level spells they can use.
I respectfully disagree with Nooneyouknow about Dragon Disciples. We all have our preferences and "for me", losing one spell per level is worth the numerous benefits of extra hit points, Con stat bonus increases, AC bonus increases, and the breath weapon. That is a lot of advantages. There are not many occasions in BG1 (IMHO) where one more spell is critical. It may mean stopping to rest a couple more times than a straight up sorcerer but that's small potatoes (again for me).

[Desiani]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by Desiani:

Any advice from people?

What difficulty setting?

What's the incentive to choose a dragon disciple when soloing the two games? If you only want to solo them, there are more attractive classes, kits and multi-class/dual-class combinations.

Also, what base attributes do you have in mind anyway? You could roll your starting attributes with a lot of passion and deliberately without cheating. Then, with many attribute points to spend, what would be your goals? You don't need to dump CHA, you could also reduce STR and WIS. Particularly, since you will be the only character to use the various Tomes in the games that grant permanent attribute bonuses.

Dragon Disciple is because I've played it in each PF/DND game that has it. Whether it was simply a prestige class you had to finagle to get into or a base class like in BG1, I like the fantasy of a dragon of this one random sorcerer looking to figure out their own path and what their dragon's blood does to them as they learn more life lessons :)