the armor class problem

[UknowitsE]

I think I know the answer but I want to know if anyone knows, did EE fix the armor class problem where it hits some kind of glass ceiling at like -10ish or something? cuz ive had charachters with -20,-30 or more(don't ask how, if you dont know, read something else) and things like fire giants would hit me every swing basically.

[Volfogg]

If we're talking about ToB enemies, these often have absurdly low THAC0. Some sources say Fire Giants for example have circa -4 THAC0, which technically would give 'em hit rate of 95% for anything with AC -6 and above. (-4 - (-6) = 2, since 1 is always a miss).

It's hard to tell. They shouldn't hit you often if somehow you've reached below -24 AC, but... who knows. There still might be some oversights present.

[UknowitsE]

well there used to be some kind of thing with the way a table or something was made so no matter what your ac was if you got it below -10ish it wouldn't make a difference. I can't really remember what the folk tales were quoting the number at but...Red dragon plate with 25 dex, +2 ring pro, gax ring, helm/cloak balduran, maybe a ioun stone, maybe some other stuff, not to mention the +2 ac from protagonist tear bonus, you can get to -10 kinda easy, let alone -14 or more.

[malkavius77]

Are you using SCS mod where they have crit enrage and power attack? Otherwise they shouldn't be hitting you that often with -20 AND -30 AC unless you are exxagerating. Even then they wouldn't hit often cept for crits.

[Volfogg]

Some sources say the cap is usually -20 AC, except when DEX modifiers, specific damage type modifiers and weapon styles are applied among other niche stuff.
Also pure Swashbucklers can have very low AC late game. I remember those Sendai's drows being almost unable to hit me in groups.

[sergiomorozov]

It is a problem of d20 system, not of the BG series itself. Attack grows and grows with levels (or THAC0 goes down and down, if you wish), AC does not (mostly) depend on character level, so attacks overtake AC and then AC does not matter anymore...

With 3 and 3.5 editions at least AC matters for second/third/fourth attacks... But it not depending on level is still a problem.

This problem is solved in Dungeons and Dragons Online by getting rid of d20 for hitting.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by UknowitsE:

you can get to -10 kinda easy, let alone -14 or more.

It requires some effort. Which is not the matter of discussion. though. There's the "Untouchable" achievement for reaching "AC -15 or lower" afterall.

However, if you're absolutely talking only about an AC of "-20,-30 or more", which is a large range, btw, the topic would need to get much more specific about which AC exactly, what enemies and difficulty mode it is about, whether it is with a modded game. Perhaps there are corner-case issues - but you don't refer to a current playthrough but only to vague memories.

[UknowitsE]

well frankly i have gotten it over(or under) -20 in pre-steam, but I didnt feel like playing it again that much or just using the console, just thought I would ask around. Just like I have had my THAC0 at...now I don't even remember, it was a long time ago, but probably around -20 also because +5 flail with proficiencies and max strength at lvl 20 f/m/c and then you only need like another couple odd items to get more than -14 THAC0, thats me being bored as a teen and not getting any/smoking weed. Actually on second thought, even if I was getting some, I'd still be playing alot of BG 2.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by UknowitsE:

Just like I have had my THAC0 at...now I don't even remember, it was a long time ago, but probably around -20 also because +5 flail with proficiencies and max strength at lvl 20 f/m/c

You cannot reach "lvl 20 f/m/c", since a level 20 fighter would be a level 21 cleric and only a level 18 mage. But there's the XP cap at 8,000,000 XP divided by number of classes per character, so you likely end at level 18 at most.
--> https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_Tables

Also, not even full Baldur's Gate 2 grants enough XP to get that far.

Yet this is Baldur's Gate forum, not BG2.

About THAC0, I don't understand the perspective, and it's a topic about AC. A multi-class f/m/c cannot learn Grand Mastery for its THAC0 modifiers. It doesn't need cleric spells to boost strength, since there's the Crom Faeyr +5 warhammer that grants STR 25. And e.g. a Kensai gains extra THAC0 bonuses every three levels.

Whether the cheesy exploits in the original games still work to break the stacking & formulae, no idea. The enhanced editions are worth revisiting for another playthrough every once in a while.

[UknowitsE]

well obviously i was talking about bg2 there, and ya i went a little off track with thac0 but who cares. Ive never played kensai b4, played a monk tho. Crom faeyr is fun to play with also, but I still like my trusty +5 flail of ages(even though it has the haste "blocker").

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Are you here to discuss something or to brag? You're the greatest BG player ever, a real hero. the best in the world, a model for eveyone. Stated this, is there something to discuss in this thread or is just you showing up with some no sense powerplayer lies?

[Gnarl]

In 2nd edition I think -10 AC was cap. Maybe in BG EE the cap is there but hidden with a simple and/or in the code, but in BG2 EE it's been removed? I can't recall original BG2, I don't think I bothered going below -10 AC.

I just finished a BG2 EE run, and had 3 party members past -10; those fire giants did still hit often. The boots that give stoneskin twice a day made the fights with them more manageable, almost too easy.