Best/Favorite Alignment?

[Jackie Daytona]

So, I'm sitting here trying to think of a new character.

I just played a C/E Half-Orc. Didn't go well. Killed 5-6 people in Candlekeep. Was struck down by 'The Flaming Fist' upon entry to Beregost. Not sure how I can be true to that alignment, but also survive the story.

I feel like C/N, N/G, N, and N/E are the only good choices.

L/E isn't represented with the wording of the agreements you make. (Getting ahead with a technicality.)

L/G pretty much requires you to help everyone. Not fun unless you are looking to do every side-quest.

C/G can't be played. You can't kill people that break agreements. You can't kill people that lie to you. You can't kill people you know are evil.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Starting from the consideration that it doens't afflict any mechanic in game, probably to answer this question we should agree on how you play allignment.
There's always been a rigid interpretation of allignments in all DnD players and this has always been a problem in DnD campain when either players or DM try to justify or prevent action due to allignment. That is not how is meant to be in DnD

One of the major mistake is thinking of the allignment as something that describes what you have to do. No: allignment describes what you have done!
You are not "forced" to do something chaotic or legal or good or evil at every action, it is sufficient that when you have the opportunity you choose in the direction of the allignment.

A chaotic evil character is not someone that kills 5 people at level 1 in a closed small city, and a L/G is not someone that go in every "right" battle suiciding himself for the greatest good.

Other point: good and evil have not the same ethical meaning that we give, but they are more how you are near to the forces of life or death. So a chaotic good is not someone that kills anyone that breaks an agreement: this is an evil thing!

Allignment where also meant to help the game flow, since they make easy to do choices (e.g. kill goblins) because they rappresent the faction of which "universal forces" you side with (good vs evil, legality vs chaos), making easy to understand who is your enemy. Using them a limiting way go in the opposite direction of the reason why they are here.

If we have doubt, we should think about D&D canon stories ad characters. Drizzt is Chaotic good. Elminster is Chaotic good. Alustriel is chaotic good. Cattie-brie is chaotic good. Do they kill people that don't respect an agreement?

That said, in BG1 all allignment can be rightly played, but some are more easy: all not evil allignment and all non legal allignment combination are easy to play, except true neutral.
Legal allignment need to force a little in some point.
Evil allignment need to skip most side quests and force something also in main quest, controlling some "evil" action for self preservation.
True neutral need to read all that is happening as a loss in the balance, probably right for main quests, more difficult for most side quests.

That if interpreted correctly as supposed in D&D and in Forgotten realm world. Then anyone can give the interpretation that he like the most....

[Hopper]

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Starting from the consideration that it doens't afflict any mechanic in game

You're probably forgetting it effects a few minor things.
-Turn Undead
-A few item restrictions.
-A few spells and HLA choices

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Starting from the consideration that it doens't afflict any mechanic in game

You're probably forgetting it effects a few minor things.
-Turn Undead
-A few item restrictions.
-A few spells and HLA choices

Right, thanks, but I meant something different, i.e. that once you choose an allignment, following or not doesn't have any "mechanical" consequencies. But you are right, those mechanics and a few other things (like strating rep) are affected by allignment choice.

[Sstavix]

In the actual tabletop game I prefer NG. But as for Baldur's Gate, it makes very little difference. Some role-playing / story changes, but not many.

[Centurion]

Personally, I have always liked CN. Leaves a lot of options open. But that is PnP.

In the game it only makes a difference for a very few things:
1) Some classes have alignment restrictions.
2) Some items have alignment restrictions.
3) Cleric strongholds in BG2 (evil is more fun!)
4) Hell Trials in BG2.
5) Turning versus rebuking undead.

And that's about it. If you want to "play to your alignment," that's fun. It is a CRPG after all. But the game literally won't care. Be a Blackguard and help the little girl find her kitten, it's cool. Be a LG Priest and kill some random peasant, it's all good. Be a Druid and go hunting all the nature in the woods. Have fun!

Alignment in D&D really relies on a human DM or, some day, maybe AI that is much better than what was available in 1998.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Starting from the consideration that it doens't afflict any mechanic in game, probably to answer this question we should agree on how you play allignment.
There's always been a rigid interpretation of allignments in all DnD players and this has always been a problem in DnD campain when either players or DM try to justify or prevent action due to allignment. That is not how is meant to be in DnD

Incorrect. Alignment was removed in MODERN versions. Not THIS version.

In 2nd ed AD&D, this was very much a thing. People with a regard for rules are "lawful". People that reject such things are "chaotic". People that want to make the world better are "good". People that don't care if the world gets worse are "evil".

Sure, alignment is meant to be a "guide" to your character's actions. However, at a certain point, alignment must be followed.

Additionally, BG1 does not fully integrate alignment rules. Specifically, a change in alignment. (The only exception I'm aware of is paladins losing their powers due to losing too much reputation points.)

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

One of the major mistake is thinking of the allignment as something that describes what you have to do. No: allignment describes what you have done!

False. Alignment is a reflection of who the character is, overall. Therefore, it is an accurate prediction of what the character is likely to do.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

You are not "forced" to do something chaotic or legal or good or evil at every action, it is sufficient that when you have the opportunity you choose in the direction of the allignment.

I didn't kill people because I was C/E. I killed them because, being C/E, I have no regard for life. This nobleman is like, "Don't touch me! I might catch something." Okay. Die.

I'm a C/E, half-orc, cleric of Tempus. I decided this character would kill anyone that annoyed him. I played the character. The alignment reflects the character I wish to play. Not the other way around.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

A chaotic evil character is not someone that kills 5 people at level 1 in a closed small city, and a L/G is not someone that go in every "right" battle suiciding himself for the greatest good.

No. You're quite mixed up. L/G can't slaughter innocents and maintain their alignment. C/E can't help everyone they can and always follow the rules.

Alignment doesn't exist so you can say, "I can do whatever, and it doesn't matter."

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Other point: good and evil have not the same ethical meaning that we give, but they are more how you are near to the forces of life or death. So a chaotic good is not someone that kills anyone that breaks an agreement: this is an evil thing!

OG description of C/G went something like: "Your moral compass, while good, may not be acceptable to society at large." This is the definition of a vigilante.

The world of Faerun is one in which good and evil aren't arbitrary notions. Gods are real. Some really are good. Some really are evil. Spells exist which can look into your heart and KNOW if you are really good or evil. Not think. Not subjectively feel. KNOW. (Like, seriously, the spell basically judges your soul.)

Therefore, any C/G person with a "Detect Evil" has a reason to mow someone down. Immediately. As they know this person has done evil and will do so again in the future.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Allignment where also meant to help the game flow, since they make easy to do choices (e.g. kill goblins) because they rappresent the faction of which "universal forces" you side with (good vs evil, legality vs chaos), making easy to understand who is your enemy. Using them a limiting way go in the opposite direction of the reason why they are here.

That makes no sense. As it implies that evil humans would choose to side with goblins. Which isn't impossible, but also not the default position.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

If we have doubt, we should think about D&D canon stories ad characters. Drizzt is Chaotic good. Elminster is Chaotic good. Alustriel is chaotic good. Cattie-brie is chaotic good. Do they kill people that don't respect an agreement?

Can't say I've read much of the novels. However, I do know that the regard for game rules is minimal. Such as having a dwarf fighter enchant a weapon using a scroll. Or how Elminster breaks all kinds of rules regarding spellcasting.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

That said, in BG1 all allignment can be rightly played, but some are more easy: all not evil allignment and all non legal allignment combination are easy to play, except true neutral.
Legal allignment need to force a little in some point.
Evil allignment need to skip most side quests and force something also in main quest, controlling some "evil" action for self preservation.
True neutral need to read all that is happening as a loss in the balance, probably right for main quests, more difficult for most side quests.

I didn't understand any of that.

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

That if interpreted correctly as supposed in D&D and in Forgotten realm world. Then anyone can give the interpretation that he like the most....

Your interpretation of the rules is: I can play any alignment, and all possibilities are valid. Why care about alignment if it doesn't matter?

[Clockwerks]

I'm not reading that wall of text.

[Centurion]

"Your interpretation of the rules is: I can play any alignment, and all possibilities are valid. Why care about alignment if it doesn't matter?"

Excellent question!

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Look, I get bored about chapter 3 of the essay, also because it is difficult to discuss with someone that misunderstands every word I said (e.g. I said that your behaviour regard allignment have no mechanical consequencies in BG, not in ADnD, so IN THIS GAME you can play whatever you like regardless the allignment, it's just a roleplaying part).
If you were here for advices I gave it in the final part of my frst message (best allignments to play C/N C/G N/G, then L/G L/N, others more problematic). If you're here to show up how much you know the allignment system, I'm not here for the discussion. I know how it works and I'm not interested in convince anyone that it works differently, expecially who has a rigid interpretation of the rule. It was just to explain the finale advices (that in fact you didn't understand). But you're free to apply the interpretation that you like the most, your game, your rule.

Originally posted by Centurion:

"Your interpretation of the rules is: I can play any alignment, and all possibilities are valid. Why care about alignment if it doesn't matter?"

Excellent question!

Because they permit you to (role)play in different ways, making replaying more funnier also if you follow the same plot. It makes you feel that the story is different, and actually in some parts can be different (side quests), or solved in different ways (e.g. killing or not).

But ask another question:
If you can't play 5-6-7 allignments of the 9, did the developper make a mistake in the plot? Or maybe the problem is the intepretation of the allignment?

And we should not mix allignment with player's choices about personality. A mad killer that kill just for fun everyone is a chaotic evil. But not every chaotic evil must be a mad killer. Not all the chaotic good must be vigilantes (and in fact you meet Elminster and...he doesn't behave as a vigilante). If you choose to play a mad killer or an aggressive vigilante the game lasts 5 minutes, but the problem is not the allignment, but the players's choice.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Shortly:
Allignments are meant to add roleplaying to the game, when they start to limit the game you are interpreting them in the wrong way.

[Clockwerks]

Originally posted by Centurion:

"Your interpretation of the rules is: I can play any alignment, and all possibilities are valid. Why care about alignment if it doesn't matter?"

Excellent question!

It really only matters in the context of tabletop roleplay, and it only matters to the DM. I played a session and a half with a DM that looked for every possible opportunity to make my Paladin fall, and eventually he decided that my approach was not valiant enough and tore my character sheet in half. He expected me to take on an entire gang by myself while not allowing me to get any sort of backup from the rest of the party, all to "save" some strange woman that had chained herself to a bed in hopes of exposing a vampire or some other undead, I forget exactly what the odd strategy was about but it involved nobody helping me at all. I was level 1.

So alignment is either a neat way to add to your character's personality, or it can be used as a bludgeon to force players into your adventure hook.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Clockwerks:

It really only matters in the context of tabletop roleplay, and it only matters to the DM. I ...to make my Paladin fall,

I agree, it matters To POOR DM...but also to poor players.
Anyway don't confuse paladin code with allignment, they are 2 different things: the code is more strict and not following it has immediate consequencies. Anyway, like allignments, is often used in a wrong way to force character to follow rigid railroad or by player to force the party to act like they want, passing the responsability from the player to the character.
What you told us is a good bad example.

[Clockwerks]

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Originally posted by Clockwerks:

It really only matters in the context of tabletop roleplay, and it only matters to the DM. I ...to make my Paladin fall,

I agree, it matters To POOR DM...but also to poor players.
Anyway don't confuse paladin code with allignment, they are 2 different things: the code is more strict and not following it has immediate consequencies. Anyway, like allignments, is often used in a wrong way to force character to follow rigid railroad or by player to force the party to act like they want, passing the responsability from the player to the character.
What you told us is a good bad example.

I'm not confused by it, the adventure was poorly written in the first place and I was penalized for not charging in blindly without finding out more information. It's exactly the sort of thing I reward players for, I like to add in small details and things that players can uncover if they really want to but I'm also comfortable with the "kick in the door and ask no questions" approach too, it's all about the group dynamic. But to me it's unrealistic for someone trying to be a champion of justice to also be a moron that charges into everything half ♥♥♥♥♥♥, it flies in the face of the whole piety aspect of a Paladin.

[CptKerion]

From a gameplay perspective in the Baldur's Gate games, it is usually best to be Lawful Good, because high reputation comes with bonuses and the enemies you do face for extremely high reputation tend to be a lot weaker or have obvious disadvantages. From a personal roleplaying perspective? That's on you. Use the alignment as a set of guidelines for how you play. I usually play LG or NG characters in Baldur's Gate. LG is pretty easy to fulfill in BG 1 while also getting a lot out of the game. NG is probably the easiest to play throughout the series and generally very rewarding.

[CptKerion]

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

Starting from the consideration that it doens't afflict any mechanic in game

You're probably forgetting it effects a few minor things.
-Turn Undead
-A few item restrictions.
-A few spells and HLA choices

it also effects the reputation mechanic a lot, your starting reputation is derived from your starting alignment.