BG1 original had no summon limit. Limit of 5 change hurt this game.

[Sephiroth]

This change only hurt players in playing the game how they want.

You could summon as many as you wanted. Which was perfect.
You should be able to play how you want.

An unlimited amount of summons without a cap hurt no one. Technically It still had a limit based on how many spells you have.

But no limit made the game more fun.

notice this: If another player does not want to use more summons then he does not have to he is able to make that choice. So he is not hurt by the change.

Yet nerfing the game in this way only hurt players who want to summon more and enjoy a real summoners experience.

BGEE seems to have made a ton of nerfs ..

FYI nerfs hurt players who enjoy the game. The game was originally loved and enjoyable for many reasons some of which you have ruined with nerfs to spells.

BG1 did not worry about to many summons.
The encounters would still be fun either way because the player ultimately decides how he wanted to play.

The player can always choose themselves to not use summons.

What does a nerf do? It simply takes away the players CHOICE. Which is takes away fun.

Ok now you can't summon more than 5...

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i agree, jump from unlimited amount to just 5 was unnecessarily strong change, even if the original wasn't meant to be played with unlimited summons.

[Centurion]

I don't think I modded this aspect. I was fighting the warders today in Durlag's Tower. Cheesed them by using wand of Monster Summoning to call up some blockers. But here is the thing. With one use of the wand I summoned six (6) creatures. So, what about the limit?

[Sstavix]

Yeah, I have found that each charge of the wand summons 3 to 6 creatures as well (usually four). So a limit of 5 summons at a time is 15 to 30 tasty meat shields to put between you and your opponents. And that is just with one wand. Unlimited summons would be overkill.

[Skere Kaan]

if that's true, then it's not as bad as i'd feared. cause the old baldur's gate 2 had a hard summon limit of EXACTLY 5 creatures. any creature over that limit would be de-summoned.

[rubish 1]

honestly this sounds pretty fun is there any mods that make summons unlimited or an option to change in the files?

[Skere Kaan]

i'm guessing you just have to change the .ini file since the engine can definitely handle it.

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Skere Kaan:

i'm guessing you just have to change the .ini file since the engine can definitely handle it.

Oh, that reminds me! Hopper tested that out and I forgot to comment on that. His post is #29 in this thread. That looked like a fun experiment!

But I tried to test this out tonight in a big battle in SoD. I used the wand a few times, but it didn't summon as many creatures as I had hoped. But I don't know if it was because the wand user was getting damaged, if the creatures were getting killed, or if there is a coded limitation. I may have to play around with it some more later.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

I don't know what game you are playing, but without mod 5 is the limit (if you go over it, the 6th creature is ot summoned).

[Skere Kaan]

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

I don't know what game you are playing, but without mod 5 is the limit (if you go over it, the 6th creature is ot summoned).

bro, changing a file IS like modding. just that you don't download 3rd party content.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Skere Kaan:

Originally posted by stef.corsi:

I don't know what game you are playing, but without mod 5 is the limit (if you go over it, the 6th creature is ot summoned).

bro, changing a file IS like modding. just that you don't download 3rd party content.

Yeah, I got it, but before you someone said that this happened WITHOUT mod.

[Sstavix]

All right, I did test it out. I had M'Khiin summon her three spirits. Then I had Dynaheir use a wand of monster summoning and two more creatures appeared. Then I had my bard cast a summoning spell. Nothing happened, and I got a message saying "you can't summon any more creatures." The same thing happened when I tried to use a wand with my bard, and used the wand a second time with Dynaheir. At no time did any of the creatures I summoned get unsummoned.

However, the charges (and spell) were still expended from the wand and my bard's memory, even though nothing actually came out! So I'm not sure if this is a bug as a result of the five summon limit, but it's something to keep in mind. Any attempt to summon more than five will waste charges / spells.

As for Centurion's case, my best guess is that it was due to just using the wand once. It probably summons a random number of creatures upon its first use. After that, the game checks to see how many summons are in place and responds accordingly - brings it up to five if there are less than five summons, or throws an error message if there are five or more summons.

So I suppose I was mistaken when I thought I summoned more than five creatures from multiple sources. I used the wand twice, but in the heat of battle it must have simply brought my count up to five again.

End result - there does seem to be a cap of five summons at a time (with the possible exception of if it is the first summons of the combat). If a player wants to increase this limitation - or remove it completely - modding is required.

[Skere Kaan]

so changing the .ini didn't work? shame

[Sephiroth]

Wow just noticed you all are still commenting on this.

I just stopped playing and started playing my Wrath of the Righteous there I can summon as many creatures as I want. No one claims balance issues and if I want to use touch attacks like ghoul touch it actually works.

Sad that beamdog had to take something I loved and ruin it by literally nerfing ghoul touch and the summon limit.

So sad I loved my Baldurs Gate

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Skere Kaan:

so changing the .ini didn't work? shame

Actually, no. I didn't change the .ini, or add any mods. My experiments were solely confined to the game as the developer had released it. So I can't make any claims to any tweaks anyone else has done with the game. Knock yourself out!

Originally posted by Sephiroth:

I just stopped playing and started playing my Wrath of the Righteous there I can summon as many creatures as I want. No one claims balance issues and if I want to use touch attacks like ghoul touch it actually works.

Sad that beamdog had to take something I loved and ruin it by literally nerfing ghoul touch and the summon limit.

I certainly wouldn't say that the changes that Beamdog made took away the fun of the game, though. They just modified the ruleset, that's all. It's sill a pretty entertaining game.

Well, except for the storyline of Siege of Dragonspear. I'm glad to finally finish THAT portion of the game, at least. Now I need to decide if I want to do a solo run next, or try to put together a party for a Legacy of Bhaal run. Decisions, decisions....

[Skere Kaan]

i agree with both. game is still fun of course, but the summon limit changes my gameplay in a major way. spamming hundreds of monsters to distract sarevok or other bosses was just the funniest thing in the game.