The elephant in the room - Safana and Jaheira changes. How dare you massacre a classic?

[Lexinator]

Let me get this out of the way first, I have beaten all IE games more than I care to admit, and BG II is my favorite one to date, followed closely by PST and BG I. I loved the EE editions, all bugs aside it let me play the games I loved once again with new content!

All the ridiculous GG and transgender (non)issues aside, a few things about the expansion pack have actually not been touched on. Things that matter to me as a gamer and huge fan of the lore. MAJOR destructive character changes.

Now let me get this out of the way - I don't actually think of the GG and transgender character as issues, especially the transgender bit. I mean ever since the original BG you could use a girdle to CHANGE YOUR SEX - meaning this has already been explored in the game and I have no idea why it is having this kind of impact right now.
Now if you look at GG, BG has always made fun of well, everything. There are plenty of Monty Python (and other) references in the game, so honestly the GG thing was a nice little Easter egg for me. I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out on these forums.

NOW comes the real issues. I waited YEARS for this expansion pack. YEEEEARS, and overall I have to say I am still happy with the end result (this will get me a lot of hate, but oh well).

On to the issues I have with the expansion pack:

- First of all, why does my party just decided to up and leave me? WE JUST SAVED THE WORLD TOGETHER, why/where is everyone going? Can I please have a better explanation other than... Well, no explanation at all?

- Second (and this is my major complaint), why were Safana and Jaheria changed so much? These are classic characters I grew up with. How dare you change them in such a drastic way with NO explanation and make them annoying shadows of what they once were?

Turning Safana from a scheming, opportunistic femme fattale into a sarcastic idiot that is unpleasant to have in my group has far reaching consequences (into BG2).
SPOILERS BELOW
Originally this woman joins you, learns all your secrets, strengths, and weakness. She uses everything at her disposal to get closer to you (including her sexuality), just to set up the betrayal in the second game.

Now she acts completely differently (she is extremely bland, plain, and annoying), and I can't stand her. It just breaks immersion. Now not only do I not care about her, but actually want to kick her out of my group (or have her die a horrible death). So coming to her rescue in BG2 is just not happening. She was one of my favorite characters and has now been oblitarated.
SPOILERS ABOVE
I won't even mention how badly you ruined Jaheira. Ugh.
Edit: So I guess no one had Jeheira in their party before and are asking what changed.
Let me list a few key issues:
- She is now almost mute. How did you people not notice this? Khalid is more talkative than she is! She has something to say on EVERYTHING in all BG games. Now she is just a prop.
- Look at how she interacts with Khalid.
- She is supposed to be a war hardened, cynical mentor... Now she is a useless teddy bear. She WAS a powerful druid that is now nothing but another sub par spell-caster.
- Apparently you hate each other for some reason? The interactions between the PC and Jaheira now actually are sexist. One of them pretty much said you won't say anything because of her husband. What is this? I don't even....
What makes these changes terrible is that they are completely reversed again in BG 2 EE. All consistency with Jaheira is gone. It seems like she has multiple personalities and completely breaks immersion.

- Third - Why is the expansion pack so linear compared to the original? A bit more freedom would have been greatly appreciated.

- Fourth - WHAT IS UP WITH THE UI AAAAAAAH /end yelling. Really.... UI.... No good. Please give me the option to go back to the classic one.

- Finally, the bugs, oh the bugs! Why are there so many issues? BG:EE has not had any problems in months, but this expansion brought countless bugs. I especially love the game freezing during cut scenes or my save games being corrupted (TWICE NOW) and random crashing while I play. How did these issues make it out of testing?

Why are these problems not mentioned on the forums? Everything is about GG and the trans character. Please focus on the REAL problems and hold Beamdog accountable for ruining two classic, fan favorite characters - as well as launching an extremely buggy product.
The more people focus on the REAL issues, the faster they are resolved. We need an option to restore Jaheria and Safana back to their classic selves, as well as more of an explanation on why our party broke up and suddenly became jerks... Or better yet, have an actual reason on why our party split - something like we have to split our forces to cover multiple rising threats (BAM, look how easy that was).

[Orangemoose]

There are plenty of threads about the proper issues it's just that people who don't even have the game and don't care about it are stirring ♥♥♥♥ because they love drama are creating and only conversing in the threads with drama.
Hopefully beamdog actually fixes the problems they've caused in terms of bugs but I wouldn't hold my breath on the UI/linearity/writing if I were you.

[Arlen]

these issues were brought up - Beamdog decided to deflect and point fingers at a certain group. They conflated all critixism into "transphobia" in order to play the victim of a supposed hate campaign (of which I have seen very little hate). When the devs start begging for good reviews, and then cry for help from the like of Jezebel and Anita Sarkeesian, when a writer specifically states that she will break lore to insert her Social Justice worldview and the fanbase can just suck it up I feel the dev team just did not give a poo about the original creators vision.

[Larry]

"It's not cannon, it's not cannon." *Rocks back and forth in a corner.* It's not cannon...?

[50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey]

Originally posted by Lexinator:

Let me get this out of the way first, I have beaten all IE games more than I care to admit, and BG II is my favorite one to date, followed closely by PST and BG I. I loved the EE editions, all bugs aside it let me play the games I loved once again with new content!

All the ridiculous GG and transgender (non)issues aside, a few things about the expansion pack have actually not been touched on. Things that matter to me as a gamer and huge fan of the lore. MAJOR destructive character changes.

Now let me get this out of the way - I don't actually think of the GG and transgender character as issues, especially the transgender bit. I mean ever since the original BG you could use a girdle to CHANGE YOUR SEX - meaning this has already been explored in the game and I have no idea why it is having this kind of impact right now.
Now if you look at GG, BG has always made fun of well, everything. There are plenty of Monty Python (and other) references in the game, so honestly the GG thing was a nice little Easter egg for me. I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out on these forums.

NOW comes the real issues. I waited YEARS for this expansion pack. YEEEEARS, and overall I have to say I am still happy with the end result (this will get me a lot of hate, but oh well).

On to the issues I have with the expansion pack:

- First of all, why does my party just decided to up and leave me? WE JUST SAVED THE WORLD TOGETHER, why/where is everyone going? Can I please have a better explanation other than... Well, no explanation at all?

- Second (and this is my major complaint), why were Safana and Jaheria changed so much? These are classic characters I grew up with. How dare you change them in such a drastic way with NO explanation and make them annoying shadows of what they once were?

Turning Safana from a scheming, opportunistic femme fattale into a sarcastic idiot that is unpleasant to have in my group has far reaching consequences (into BG2).
SPOILERS BELOW
Originally this woman joins you, learns all your secrets, strengths, and weakness. She uses everything at her disposal to get closer to you (including her sexuality), just to set up the betrayal in the second game.

Now she acts completely differently (she is extremely bland, plain, and annoying), and I can't stand her. It just breaks immersion. Now not only do I not care about her, but actually want to kick her out of my group (or have her die a horrible death). So coming to her rescue in BG2 is just not happening. She was one of my favorite characters and has now been oblitarated.
SPOILERS ABOVE
I won't even mention how badly you ruined Jaheira. Ugh.

- Third - Why is the expansion pack so linear compared to the original? A bit more freedom would have been greatly appreciated.

- Fourth - WHAT IS UP WITH THE UI AAAAAAAH /end yelling. Really.... UI.... No good. Please give me the option to go back to the classic one.

- Finally, the bugs, oh the bugs! Why are there so many issues? BG:EE has not had any problems in months, but this expansion brought countless bugs. I especially love the game freezing during cut scenes or my save games being corrupted (TWICE NOW) and random crashing while I play. How did these issues make it out of testing?

Why are these problems not mentioned on the forums? Everything is about GG and the trans character. Please focus on the REAL problems and hold Beamdog accountable for ruining two classic, fan favorite characters - as well as launching an extremely buggy product.
The more people focus on the REAL issues, the faster they are resolved. We need an option to restore Jaheria and Safana back to their classic selves, as well as more of an explanation on why our party broke up and suddenly became jerks... Or better yet, have an actual reason on why our party split - something like we have to split our forces to cover multiple rising threats (BAM, look how easy that was).

I found this insightful and interesting. I have only one question for you:

Why do you hate trans people so much?

[Chavinchi]

Originally posted by Lexinator:

How did these issues make it out of testing?

It's not 1998 anymore. Testing phase starts on launch day.

[KrazyOne]

The first real argument that has reason and marrit. I can only give assumption to as why the game has bugs and mistakes, but my opinion would suggest that they rushed the release date due to the growing interest of it.

You can only hold a project back so long before the fan base lose interest. You are right issues that should be talked about are overshadowed by nagging wives and bickering husbands.

[Salvatos]

I feel compelled to point out that all of these issues have in fact been brought up on the forum, most of them multiple times.

To answer your major complaint, the writer felt that those characters' depiction was sexist and needed to be revised. She also made it clear that she doesn't care if people disagree.

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”

Source: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595

[Arlen]

And honestly, the devs of this can say all they want that this is an expansion to the series, in all intents and purposes this is nothing more than a paid mod. and a very poorly done mod at that. They should have taken some pointers from the creators of "dark side of the sword coast"

[Zero]

Originally posted by Lexinator:

Let me get this out of the way first, I have beaten all IE games more than I care to admit, and BG II is my favorite one to date, followed closely by PST and BG I. I loved the EE editions, all bugs aside it let me play the games I loved once again with new content!

All the ridiculous GG and transgender (non)issues aside, a few things about the expansion pack have actually not been touched on. Things that matter to me as a gamer and huge fan of the lore. MAJOR destructive character changes.

Now let me get this out of the way - I don't actually think of the GG and transgender character as issues, especially the transgender bit. I mean ever since the original BG you could use a girdle to CHANGE YOUR SEX - meaning this has already been explored in the game and I have no idea why it is having this kind of impact right now.
Now if you look at GG, BG has always made fun of well, everything. There are plenty of Monty Python (and other) references in the game, so honestly the GG thing was a nice little Easter egg for me. I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out on these forums.

NOW comes the real issues. I waited YEARS for this expansion pack. YEEEEARS, and overall I have to say I am still happy with the end result (this will get me a lot of hate, but oh well).

On to the issues I have with the expansion pack:

- First of all, why does my party just decided to up and leave me? WE JUST SAVED THE WORLD TOGETHER, why/where is everyone going? Can I please have a better explanation other than... Well, no explanation at all?

- Second (and this is my major complaint), why were Safana and Jaheria changed so much? These are classic characters I grew up with. How dare you change them in such a drastic way with NO explanation and make them annoying shadows of what they once were?

Turning Safana from a scheming, opportunistic femme fattale into a sarcastic idiot that is unpleasant to have in my group has far reaching consequences (into BG2).
SPOILERS BELOW
Originally this woman joins you, learns all your secrets, strengths, and weakness. She uses everything at her disposal to get closer to you (including her sexuality), just to set up the betrayal in the second game.

Now she acts completely differently (she is extremely bland, plain, and annoying), and I can't stand her. It just breaks immersion. Now not only do I not care about her, but actually want to kick her out of my group (or have her die a horrible death). So coming to her rescue in BG2 is just not happening. She was one of my favorite characters and has now been oblitarated.
SPOILERS ABOVE
I won't even mention how badly you ruined Jaheira. Ugh.

- Third - Why is the expansion pack so linear compared to the original? A bit more freedom would have been greatly appreciated.

- Fourth - WHAT IS UP WITH THE UI AAAAAAAH /end yelling. Really.... UI.... No good. Please give me the option to go back to the classic one.

- Finally, the bugs, oh the bugs! Why are there so many issues? BG:EE has not had any problems in months, but this expansion brought countless bugs. I especially love the game freezing during cut scenes or my save games being corrupted (TWICE NOW) and random crashing while I play. How did these issues make it out of testing?

Why are these problems not mentioned on the forums? Everything is about GG and the trans character. Please focus on the REAL problems and hold Beamdog accountable for ruining two classic, fan favorite characters - as well as launching an extremely buggy product.
The more people focus on the REAL issues, the faster they are resolved. We need an option to restore Jaheria and Safana back to their classic selves, as well as more of an explanation on why our party broke up and suddenly became jerks... Or better yet, have an actual reason on why our party split - something like we have to split our forces to cover multiple rising threats (BAM, look how easy that was).

What are some of the examples of how Jaheira has been ruined? Haven't come across any so far. Genuinely interested to know.

[Quelo]

Changing beloved characters has never upset anyone.

;)

[Scholar-at-Arms]

The reason the trans character is focused is it's good drama & Beamdog is letting everyone get distracted from the bigger issues and use "transphobia" as a lightning rod.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Scholar-at-Arms:

The reason the trans character is focused is it's good drama & Beamdog is letting everyone get distracted from the bigger issues and use "transphobia" as a lightning rod.

Originally posted by Benson:

'homophobia' and 'transphobia' are just made up words to make people feel guitly about a natural repulsion to something that is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up and to try to stop them speaking out against it.

The fact that a transphobic comment was posted directly under your comment a few moments later sort of undercuts what you were just saying. I don't believe everybody complaining about the game is trans/homophobic, however a decent portion of the group seems to be.

[Arlen]

Benson seems to be one of those trolls attempting to stir the pot. Ignore him and eventually he will have nothing to feed on

[Zero]

On another note, what about those Jaheira changes? I'm honestly not trying to mock anybody. I'd genuinely like to see how she was changed.

[Slippz]

Originally posted by Lexinator:

Let me get this out of the way first, I have beaten all IE games more than I care to admit, and BG II is my favorite one to date, followed closely by PST and BG I. I loved the EE editions, all bugs aside it let me play the games I loved once again with new content!

All the ridiculous GG and transgender (non)issues aside, a few things about the expansion pack have actually not been touched on. Things that matter to me as a gamer and huge fan of the lore. MAJOR destructive character changes.

Now let me get this out of the way - I don't actually think of the GG and transgender character as issues, especially the transgender bit. I mean ever since the original BG you could use a girdle to CHANGE YOUR SEX - meaning this has already been explored in the game and I have no idea why it is having this kind of impact right now.
Now if you look at GG, BG has always made fun of well, everything. There are plenty of Monty Python (and other) references in the game, so honestly the GG thing was a nice little Easter egg for me. I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out on these forums.

NOW comes the real issues. I waited YEARS for this expansion pack. YEEEEARS, and overall I have to say I am still happy with the end result (this will get me a lot of hate, but oh well).

On to the issues I have with the expansion pack:

- First of all, why does my party just decided to up and leave me? WE JUST SAVED THE WORLD TOGETHER, why/where is everyone going? Can I please have a better explanation other than... Well, no explanation at all?

- Second (and this is my major complaint), why were Safana and Jaheria changed so much? These are classic characters I grew up with. How dare you change them in such a drastic way with NO explanation and make them annoying shadows of what they once were?

Turning Safana from a scheming, opportunistic femme fattale into a sarcastic idiot that is unpleasant to have in my group has far reaching consequences (into BG2).
SPOILERS BELOW
Originally this woman joins you, learns all your secrets, strengths, and weakness. She uses everything at her disposal to get closer to you (including her sexuality), just to set up the betrayal in the second game.

Now she acts completely differently (she is extremely bland, plain, and annoying), and I can't stand her. It just breaks immersion. Now not only do I not care about her, but actually want to kick her out of my group (or have her die a horrible death). So coming to her rescue in BG2 is just not happening. She was one of my favorite characters and has now been oblitarated.
SPOILERS ABOVE
I won't even mention how badly you ruined Jaheira. Ugh.

- Third - Why is the expansion pack so linear compared to the original? A bit more freedom would have been greatly appreciated.

- Fourth - WHAT IS UP WITH THE UI AAAAAAAH /end yelling. Really.... UI.... No good. Please give me the option to go back to the classic one.

- Finally, the bugs, oh the bugs! Why are there so many issues? BG:EE has not had any problems in months, but this expansion brought countless bugs. I especially love the game freezing during cut scenes or my save games being corrupted (TWICE NOW) and random crashing while I play. How did these issues make it out of testing?

Why are these problems not mentioned on the forums? Everything is about GG and the trans character. Please focus on the REAL problems and hold Beamdog accountable for ruining two classic, fan favorite characters - as well as launching an extremely buggy product.
The more people focus on the REAL issues, the faster they are resolved. We need an option to restore Jaheria and Safana back to their classic selves, as well as more of an explanation on why our party broke up and suddenly became jerks... Or better yet, have an actual reason on why our party split - something like we have to split our forces to cover multiple rising threats (BAM, look how easy that was).

I feel sick to my stomach after reading about the changes to Safana. All I can think of is "Why do this?". That's not even taking into account the problems it causes for character continuity. This really is the lowest form of moralising, akin to ISIS and the Talibans attempts to wipe out periods of history by destroying statues of ancient civilisations.

I wanted this game to be good. Instead it seems that it's something on par with this:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02316/painting-fresco_2316720k.jpg