Are Monks garbage in BG:EE (But good in BG2?)

[TheBlueFox]

Everything I see about the monk seems to suggest they're pretty....awful. Like, really bad. Pretty much Terrible.

But they do get better later on. If I were to make Charname a Monk in BG:EE, would I have a bad time?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Page 147 of the Adventurer's Guide (the latest one as offered as an update for Siege of Dragonspear).

With the XP cap of BGEE at 161,000 XP and Siege of Dragonspear at 500,000 XP, you could only reach level 8 or 10 respectively. Not much for the monk to gain nice features. Only at higher levels, the monk gets good.

[TheBlueFox]

Im planning on trying out the Ninja spy monk, Dark monk kinda thing.

I suppose if I take daggers and use the dagger of venom with the Dark Monk's Hide/Move silently skill, Plus the ability to drink potions meant for warriors, I can theoretically get a HIGH attack bonus sneak attack (no extra backstab damage) to get some poison off. Dagger proficiency will also give me throwing daggers for range early on...

But getting armor bonuses is going to be odd. I can't wear the bracers of defense AND the one that increases your Base attack + damage...

Having the base attack increase of a fighter will be nice, but not having decent AC will be terribad

[TheBlueFox]

Okay, I was mistaken. Monks kinda can't wear those bracers, and shouldn't anyway. I forgot the monk gets AC boosts through their natural levels.

AC 9 at level 1, 8 at level 3, 7 at level 5.

So at level 5, I should have Base 7AC, -1 with a ring of protection to 6, -4 from 18 dexterity bringing it to a 2ac.

Thats... Not terrible for level 5

[Soteria]

It's not great, either, not if you're getting attacked.

[TheBlueFox]

My plan is to build up like an assassin, with Hide/MoveSilent, using the initial sneak attack to apply a Poison dagger strike or a stunning blow. Potions of invisibility will be high on my list of necessary items for escaping mid combat, at least until I can get haste boots.

I'm not planning on being entirely solo, I'll pick up people for short bursts, like Minsc to rescue Dynaheir, but ditch them after their quests. Hopefully this will increase the xp gain and i'll level swift enough to not be too squishy for long.

How can I lower my AC more?

The Shield amulet comes to mind, but it's only got 50 charges so I'll have to use it sparingly.


I'm unfamiliar with AD&D progression, Quivering Palm (and I think Stunning blow as well) is listed as SAVE VS SPELL, so does this mean it's poor against mages and good against large, bulky fighters?

[Julius Borisov]

I suggest using Relair's Mistake on your monks. It makes them quite good (giving them more APR and making hits count as made by +1 weapon).

[TheBlueFox]

That's an interesting item to look into, I've never found much of a use for it before.

I started the character up and played for a little while. Made it to beregost, killed Silke, the red wizards, and the dwarf assassin with use of the dark monk's blindness spell. Headed to Nashkel and killed the other assassin in there (Blind is really useful...).

I've mostly been surviving by using throwing daggers and Imoen's wand of magic missile, trying to get my hands on the Dagger of Venom as early as I can by selling everything like the evermemory. I'm also trying not to progress too much in the game until I buy it, because I want to start lowering my Rep and getting the negative reputation powers without making it cost too much.

I'm only level... 3 I think, playing mostly solo to level up as quick as I can to get to level 5 quickly.

How do bracers of defense work on a monk actually. if I got some bracers of AC7, would they reduce my AC by 2 (Since it starts at 9) or if I'm already at a low ac due to my monk level, do they not have any effect?

[Shackler316]

Monks can use Bracers of Defense. They work like this...what ever the number is listed on the bracers, say in your example of Bracer of Defense 7, your base AC is 7, then you include rings, Dex bonus etc.

So if you have a +1 Ring of Protections and you have an 18 Dex which gives you a -4 bonus to AC, it will bring your AC to a 2.

[TheBlueFox]

yes, but that doesn't answer the second part of my question.

My question was if it would give me a benefit if I leveled up.

The monk gets -1 AC every 2 levels beyond the first. He starts at 9AC, goes down to 8AC at level 3, and at level 5 he's got 7AC, level 7 he has 6AC.

So, if I use bracers of defense 7AC at level 5, do they just not do anything?

[Marksthecylon]

The bracers of defence reduce your base AC to whatever they say (-8, -7 etc) if your base AC goes down beyond that point they become useless to you. So at lvl 5 your monk would recieve no benefit from them.

[TheBlueFox]

So I just hit level 6 after beating the nashkel mines.

I did so by hunting down all the high level spellcasters that I could think of, and killing them solo. The monk was surprisingly effective at it really.

*SPOILERS*

For silke I used the boots of electrical resistance and a potion of insulation, since her lightning bolt spell is her mainstay, I stood RIGHT up against her and the bolt ricocheted into herself and killed her for me. The assassins in the town I hit with blindness since it seems their save vs spell is rather low comparatively, then threw daggers at them until they died.

The red wizards of thay I got REALLY lucky on. Neera cast color spray and managed to knock them out, and I just cleaned up really.

The spiders in the house? Ran in, threw a dagger, ran out, and kited them twice in a large circle through the entire town. It was like a freaking parade of horror. It took like 40 throwing daggers to kill them though.

Melicamp the chicken was easy XP

I correctly talked down Bassilius the Murderer so I didn't have to fight his zombies and skeletons, blindness + throwing daggers beat him fairly easily, though he did manage to get off a hold person spell I saved against.

Greywolf the assassin wasn't too bad after being hit with blindness (really I'm having alot of luck with this spell!) If it failed to land I'd probably have run him up to the mines and had him get shot at by the Amnian soldiers protecting the mines.

The nashkel mines weren't too bad. I basically ran past everything in stealth, face-tanking the traps since I was already level 5, some I was so fast walking over it seemed like they didn't activate.

My only REAL Trouble was the 4 assassins after Nashkel. I probably should have just walked past them, really I didn't need to fight them and it was a difficult battle. There's TWO divine casters that both cast (Hold personx2, Hold person x2, Hold Personx2, Commandx2, Glyph of wardingx2, Divine Mightx2) and then go into melee, I know this because I ran JUST within vision range, threw a dagger and ran away, and then received two simultaneous hold spells while out of sight. I had to wait out 3 sets of hold person. Eventually my hit and runs failed when they landed a command on me, I ran away and got lucky with the Darts of Wounding that were dropped off one of the other two (The non-archer) and poisoned them to death while kiting them in large circles.

So, now I'm level 6 and I'm going to collect a small party, Edwin, Dorn, and Val...something, the drow cleric. I figured if I got to level 6 first solo I wouldn't have to level up the party, they just jump to level 5 when I grab em.

The monk isn't bad! I have NO GEAR and I'm at AC1, AC0 with a dagger equipped but I only get 1 attack with a dagger, 2 attacks barehanded. Apparently bare hand doesn't qualify for One-Handed style.

Alright, I don't have "No Gear". I'm wearing the ring of princes+1, I have both the Gauntlets that give +2THAC0 for ranged and the Weapon Master (+1THAC0, +2 damage) and the Cat senses boots (whatever boots give you -5AC vs missile attacks) and the elf bane belt on.

In a party, leveling up slowly, I would say that the monk takes a while to get rolling, a Long while. I didn't feel strong UNTIL level 5, when I got a low AC and decent base attack. I felt like a really really really bad fighter that could only throw daggers and darts. But now with my 2 fist attacks per round I'm actually starting to feel like a nice beater, coupled with the ability to hide and the dagger of venom+2 for some nice openers.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Hey, you've got me starting a new playthrough, too, but I've added a dwarven Priest of Tyr as player companion for a Sun Soul Monk and will pick up some NPC companions as soon as possible.

[TheBlueFox]

I definitely recommend throwing weapons on a monk to start out. The multiple attacks are helpful, along with the fact you don't start off with great AC for a melee character.

Sun soul monks don't get Stunning blow, do they? I think the trade that for Sun Soulray or something like that.

Chill touch is replaced by Burning fists or something of the sort, which is shorter, but gives more damage. Could be interesting, especially for bursting down undead since I'm fairly certain it deals extra damage to them.

I like the Blur and blindness of the dark moon monk, but a sun soul definitely has some good options.

Just... I gotta get to baldur's gate and get me some 19str, or use potions of strength more, because having base 18 strength on a fighter is pretty bad, even with a fighter's THAC0

[Shackler316]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

yes, but that doesn't answer the second part of my question.

My question was if it would give me a benefit if I leveled up.

The monk gets -1 AC every 2 levels beyond the first. He starts at 9AC, goes down to 8AC at level 3, and at level 5 he's got 7AC, level 7 he has 6AC.

So, if I use bracers of defense 7AC at level 5, do they just not do anything?

Let's use Bracers of AC 2. You have 18 Dex which gives you -4 to AC. So at the start you're at a -2 AC. Add a Ring of Protection +1. Now you're at -3 AC. Monks get AC bonuses, which ever level they get them at. You then add those bonuses to the AC. So at 2nd level you get +1 to AC. You add that bonus to your overall AC.

Bracers of Defense 2: Your base AC is 2
18 Dex: -4 to AC
Ring of Prot +1: +1 to AC
Monk Bonuses: +1 to AC (additional bonuses at certain level): +1

Overall AC: -4

Hope this helps. Bracers and Rings of Prot are really beneficial to the Monk Class in terms of defense. Every time he is able to get that additional bonus to AC, it's added to your overall AC.

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by Shackler316:

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

yes, but that doesn't answer the second part of my question.

My question was if it would give me a benefit if I leveled up.

The monk gets -1 AC every 2 levels beyond the first. He starts at 9AC, goes down to 8AC at level 3, and at level 5 he's got 7AC, level 7 he has 6AC.

So, if I use bracers of defense 7AC at level 5, do they just not do anything?

Let's use Bracers of AC 2. You have 18 Dex which gives you -4 to AC. So at the start you're at a -2 AC. Add a Ring of Protection +1. Now you're at -3 AC. Monks get AC bonuses, which ever level they get them at. You then add those bonuses to the AC. So at 2nd level you get +1 to AC. You add that bonus to your overall AC.

Bracers of Defense 2: Your base AC is 2
18 Dex: -4 to AC
Ring of Prot +1: +1 to AC
Monk Bonuses: +1 to AC (additional bonuses at certain level): +1

Overall AC: -4

Hope this helps. Bracers and Rings of Prot are really beneficial to the Monk Class in terms of defense. Every time he is able to get that additional bonus to AC, it's added to your overall AC.

Sorry, I believe you're wrong.

Monk bonuses to AC do not stack with Bracers of Defense. Only the one with the biggest benefit applies