.

[grumpymoose]

.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Don't make a fool of yourself. The first screenshot shows a journal update giving a hint. Any other summary in the journal is irrelevant if the player takes appropriate action to report the incident to the FF.

[fauxpas]

Nice try, but the actual journel entry in question is alot more relevant than trying to misled people with carefully timed screenshots.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=673256614



If that link doesn't work, you can simply browse through my screenshots, the rest of the dialog between the bhaalspawn and Aileen the Murderess is also in there.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Haha. Your screenshot tells the same thing at the top as the summary: I could tell Aileen I'll keep her secret or I could report her at Flaming Fist headquarters.

Any clever player, who finds her story suspicious, will try reporting her to the FF anyway.

[fauxpas]

Wish I could say I was suprised, but the fact that even with the evidence being rubbed in your nose like an unruly puppy you are still trying your song and dance has long since become predictable.


Considering the journel color choices, being caught "red handed" is rather fitting.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Diposting pertama kali oleh fauxpas:

Considering the journel color choices, being caught "red handed" is rather fitting.

It's all in your imagination. Prejudices and such. It has been pointed out before in the old topic about Aileen. She may have told the truth, but I don't care, and whether the ruthless FF officers simply arrested her without some serious investigation doesn't interest me either.

Keep riding your naysayer wave.

[fauxpas]

Yet another one zooms right over ya noggin. Such a pity.

[Larry]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D'amarr from Darshiva:

fauxpas, you are not my spokesman.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=672717356
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=672205718
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=673702086

The point behind it is the fact the dialogue is heavily in favour of supporting the woman. This much is abundantly clear. Four options, two of which praise the woman flat out, one of which is a generic "I'll blackmail you instead" and the other being "I'm leaving now." You can still go and report her but the fact of the matter is the writing clearly tries to tunnel the player down the path of letting the woman go and absolving her of any wrong doing. Whenever you try to prod into what she actually did you get nowhere, she just bursts into a tyrade about not telling anyone what happened with no option for you to investigate or press for what actually happened; the game forces you to assume no foul play was at hand despite how dodgy the entire situation is.

You pretty much only report her not because the game gave you reason to but because you, as a player, consciously chose to report her without any option to find evidence of her wrong doing, basically making you a sadist for reporting her with no hard evidence to back up what she did or didn't do. You're left to the assumption that she's a victim which is something the game basically screams at you throughout. There isn't even an option to berate her at any point.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr.Larry:

The point behind it is the fact the dialogue is heavily in favour of supporting the woman.

For this small side-quest, reporting her may be the rude/hostile path for badass heroes. Without reputation loss as per the rules. There are other side-quests in these games where you can answer in a non-friendly way, end conversation abruptly (and not offer help) or even threaten a person. These are role-playing options.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr.Larry:

You pretty much only report her not because the game gave you reason to but because you, as a player, consciously chose to report her without any option to find evidence of her wrong doing, basically making you a sadist for reporting her with no hard evidence to back up what she did or didn't do. You're left to the assumption that she's a victim which is something the game basically screams at you throughout. There isn't even an option to berate her at any point.

Let's not wander off onto thin ice. BGEE does not offer investigation or interrogation options either. Mad Brage or Samuel as examples. The story is told, and you may decide whether to kill him or help him. Or in the case of Mad Brage, cheat the game and help him, then kill him for some more XP. Why do you believe the story that is told about these NPCs?

In the story the authors have written, Aileen maybe tells the truth about her husband, a drunken brute that has tried to beat her up and died accidentally. It is just you, the PLAYER, who jumps to conclusions seeing her and the corpse. It's everything in your imagination. You think you've discovered a cold-hearted murderess and want the option to report her to be offered on a silver plate. And possibly other options, too, such as beating her up or dragging her through the streets to the FF HQ. There could be completely different options, such as a scripted sequence (as in Pillars of Eternity), where she would manage to flee, and your attributes would decide whether you are quick enough to grab her arm or chase her through the streets.

[Larry]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D'amarr from Darshiva:

Let's not wander off onto thin ice. BGEE does not offer investigation or interrogation options either.

For all purposes that's a completely separate topic and game with no bearing on whether or not Siege of Dragonspear is good or bad. The title in question is Dragonspear, not the base game. I don't feel there should be any reason to continue this line of rhetoric when it has zero bearing on the discussion relating to the overall quality of a separate title by an entirely different team twenty years later. It's akin to arguing whether or not Battlefield: Hardline is bad because Battlefield 3 or 4 did something else or similar.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

@Dr.Larry

So, you expect side-quest dialogue options to be different from the style found in the base games? The games offer mostly 2-4 answers to choose from, and the depth of a dialogue is limited, too. There already is an option to not believe Aileen's first story. She then tells what she claims is the truth, because she is desperate. Then you may decide. If you still don't believe her, the game tells you your two options in the journal popup and journal (and attacking citizens is the evil path). It is not a detective game where you get to do a full investigation. It's a game of simple role-playing options. Believe her, don't believe her, choose sides, choose a path that matches your alignment. Been there, done that.

Early in the game you learn that the Flaming Fists mercenaries aren't exactly friendly to the citizens, so that may influence your decision too.

I still remember my first playthrough of BG1 where I left the Nashkel Mines with something I thought was good enough as evidence and could not tell Berrun Ghastkill about it, because the game does not implement that. One must go down all the way to Mulahey and defeat him.

When I played Siege of Dragonspear for the first time with the only final save Cavalier I had from BGEE, I wanted to turn her in all the time as helping her with corpse disposal sounded completely wrong for a paladin. Aileen's "please don't report me" and the answer option "I'm still not sure I believe you" made me curious and I went to the first nearby FF officers before visiting their HQ.

[Larry]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D'amarr from Darshiva:

...

I learned a long time ago not to go off topic. Enjoy trying to argue how you interpret the base game to be and then try excuse the expansion, the fact is it bears no weight in any objectivity on the subject of "Is Siege of Dragonspear good." It is not. It is poorly written. It has obvious influences. Full stop.

[Soteria]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr.Larry:

Diposting pertama kali oleh D'amarr from Darshiva:

Let's not wander off onto thin ice. BGEE does not offer investigation or interrogation options either.

For all purposes that's a completely separate topic and game with no bearing on whether or not Siege of Dragonspear is good or bad. The title in question is Dragonspear, not the base game. I don't feel there should be any reason to continue this line of rhetoric when it has zero bearing on the discussion relating to the overall quality of a separate title by an entirely different team twenty years later. It's akin to arguing whether or not Battlefield: Hardline is bad because Battlefield 3 or 4 did something else or similar.

Actually, considering the charge is that SoD has a tone and writing quality that is different from the original, whether or not the base game does the same thing is *extremely* relevant.

You did not demonstrate that the writing is bad--certainly not objectively. Are there typos? Grammatical errors? That would make your case. All you did is show that you don't like any of the dialog options in a single quest. So what? Yeah, that's annoying, but if that makes the game bad, it's certainly worth pointing out that happens in literally every RPG.

If it happens frequently, sure, that's a problem and I would call that bad writing. But one quest? When you weren't even correct in your original complaint that the game forces you to believe her? No.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Dr.Larry doesn't know much about Siege of Dragonspear. Stopped playing on April 1st after the first dungeon. Loaded a single old save game into BG2 on 7:00 pm the day before and stopped there. And did a similar thing with BG1.

[Larry]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D'amarr from Darshiva:

Dr.Larry doesn't know much about Siege of Dragonspear. Stopped playing on April 1st after the first dungeon. Loaded a single old save game into BG2 on 7:00 pm the day before and stopped there. And did a similar thing with BG1.

You realise the achievements were added much later than when the games were released, right? Some achievements also bugged if you already completed the requirements given they were retroactive. Given I simply logged into the game after the release of the patch I got most of my achievements on the same day thus the exact same time stamps for every achievement. That, and I have the original two games from before the Enhanced Editions. What exactly was your point...?

Did I strike a nerve by being objective and simply not going off topic in regards to Siege of Dragonspear?

What's actually odd about Mr.D'amarr is his account seems to be exclusive to Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II Enhanced Editions and all of his achievements are from after the release of Siege of Dragonspear and the controversy... Dare I say I detect something quite peculiar about this account?

[Larry]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Soteria:

Actually, considering the charge is that SoD has a tone and writing quality that is different from the original, whether or not the base game does the same thing is *extremely* relevant.

Having a quick look over what I posted in this thread... I never mentioned the original game in comparison to the expansion. Separately I mentioned how the base game's side quests were a large chunk of the game and how it would be worth the OP's time going back and doing them. So... Mmm...? Moot point?