How to use bastard sword with two hands?

[albanshqiptar]

It seems the character is only using one hand.

[red255]

what would using a bastard sword in 2 hands accomplish? you want the two handed weapon fighting perks to apply to bastard swords use the single weapon perk tree, does the same thing.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by red255:

what would using a bastard sword in 2 hands accomplish? you want the two handed weapon fighting perks to apply to bastard swords use the single weapon perk tree, does the same thing.

A theoretical but plausible scenario in the BG games would be that player finds a good enchanted bastard sword and gives it a character that is proficient with two-handed swords and/or two handed weapon style already, but is lacking a good enchanted weapon.

[malkavius77]

I mean if we really want to go down this rabbit hole it will never end. Tons of weapons can be 1 or 2 handed in real life. They mostly just made it this way because RPG makers aren't medieval masters of weapons knowledge. And even today "Experts" can barely agree on any damn thing when it comes to weapons used during the time periods.

But honestly it's usually just done for balance reasons in game or else spears would be king in most tactical RPGs.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Retroactively changing the (A)D&D rule books would be fun - guaranteed!

[AlexMBrennan]

you want the two handed weapon fighting perks to apply to bastard swords use the single weapon perk tree, does the same thing.

No it doesn't - two handed style gives +1 damage, -4 speed factor while single weapon style gives -2 AC.

A theoretical but plausible scenario in the BG games would be that player finds a good enchanted bastard sword and gives it a character that is proficient with two-handed swords and/or two handed weapon style already, but is lacking a good enchanted weapon.

If you have to use a weapon you are not proficient with then I doubt that weapon style bonuses will save you.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

If you have to use a weapon you are not proficient with then I doubt that weapon style bonuses will save you.

Uhm, bastard swords would count as 1H and 2H weapons.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Retroactively changing the (A)D&D rule books would be fun - guaranteed!

Plenty of DMs and homebrew accomplishes that. And tons of mods do as well if you strictly want it for BG.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Better not remind me of DMs that all too generously (and even spontanously) changed this and that.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

Well, you are absolutely right about one thing: classification came later, and in my view, as well as many others, Bastard Sword is a subtype of a long sword. Because I have fought with both and I can still use the same techniques with my two hands.

But try to fight a guy with a bastard sword and a shield. It’s unwieldy at best. It’s like using your pistol as a hammer if the ammunition runs out. Can you do it? Yes. Is it effective? If your enemy is under your foot and you are hammering his face in with a sidearm — sure.

But 5 out of 6 times a mediocre fighter with a Bastard sword and two hands will win against a good fighter with a shield and a Bastard sword. Provided the latter does not twist his wrist because the thing drags you with it if you swing too hard (pretty hard to control, even messer or falchion is better because… well it’s a cut weapon, not so much thrust), also — Bastard swords being long swords were used for half-swording and breaking through enemy armour. You don’t want a shield when you are fighting plate with it. You want to use your free hand and stab him in the eyes and joints, because otherwise it will either bounce off, you will chip it or even break it, or your thrust attacks will be as accurate as stormtroopers on acid riding a rollercoaster whilst firing at a squirrel climbing a tree.

In fact, a LOT of people used a buckler. And shields were for ranged combat or tournaments. So in a grand battle you would catch all of the crossbow arrows with your shield, provided you are on foot, then drop the makeshift representation of a hedgehog and use your weapon with two hands. Bucklers, contrary to the popular belief, were really useful as they protected your hand without making it unusable. A lot of hits end up on your arms, in fact that is my strategy — I always go for the arms, as the enemy expects me to strike them in the body area. In fact, the first ever martial arts manual that survived to this day is monks teaching long sword and buckler.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

The point is, how many different bastard swords have you used? They differ in length of blade, they differ in blade width, and they differ in overall weight. Perhaps you've used one of those that are sold in shops today, but even those vary a lot, and judging by a sword's name or length it cannot be concluded whether some time in the past it may have classified as a bastard sword rather than a long sword. Here's a long and heavy one:
https://www.arms-n-armor.com/collections/longswords/products/german-bastard-sword


And here's a guy that comments on Baldur's Gate and his personal preferences, too, which is a video that is spread in various BG forums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF_kxAqS_8k

A response to that expands on bastard swords and buckler usage as well as 1H usage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwdg6lblKow

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

My sword:

https://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-ringeck-xva.htm

Albion swords are great.

That said, when I started out, I’ve used a wooden one, then a practice one.

Props for Schola Gladiatoria. Love the guy.

[////]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

If you have to use a weapon you are not proficient with then I doubt that weapon style bonuses will save you.

Uhm, bastard swords would count as 1H and 2H weapons.

exactly, and there's no need to do anything with animations, because the whole point of stances with katanas/bastard swords is less predictability anyways.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by razoleg (The Cunning Fox):

Bastard sword is not a one-handed weapon, buddy. It's two-handed as it was mostly used by horsemen who couldn't afford to have longer blades. Literally almost all the fighting techniques with the sword use two hands. I know, because I've studied HEMA in Bastard sword specifically.

The topic is about a 20 year old fantasy video game in a DnD setting not HEMA or historical combat.

Half the shit in this game is historically inaccurate. In the game context Long Swords and Bastards swords are in a separate category of weapons, both are 1-handed weapon and studded leather armor is actually a thing and that's that.

WotC is somewhat better about this in DND 5E

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Half the shit in this game is historically inaccurate. In the game context Long Swords and Bastards swords are in a separate category of weapons, both are 1-handed weapon

Let's keep history out of it, please, since Forgotten Realms is about a fantasy world.

Probably the distinction is just to have true short swords and larger one-handed swords in separate categories. With an emphasis on one being short (and doing piercing damage) and the other being long (and doing slashing damage).

Originally, the BG games called them "Large Swords".

On Earth, historically it is accurate that various long swords have been used with one hand. I'm not keeping bookmarks, but here's a video that expands on it:

Longswords used as one-handed swords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezckiWeAAI

The BG Wiki isn't that inaccurate with regard to blade length:

These swords are usually referred to as double-edged swords, war swords, or military swords. In many cases, the long sword has a single-edged blade. There is no single version of the long sword; the design and length vary from culture to culture and may vary within the same culture depending on the era. Among the most common characteristics of all long swords is their length, which ranges from thirty-five inches to forty-seven inches. In the latter case, the blade is known to take up forty inches of the total length. Most long swords have a double-edged blade and a sharp point at the tip. Despite the tip, the long sword is designed for slashing, not thrusting.

What they didn't mention is as an important characteristic of true long swords is the long grip - which is large enough as to classify them as hand-and-a-half swords, at least.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Let's keep history out of it, please, since Forgotten Realms is about a fantasy world.

That was kind of my point...