Dwarven Doom Guards

[House of Rahl]

wow, just wow. im on legacy of bhaal with core damage. here is their stats.

level 20
272 hp
-15 ac
5 attack per round
1 thaco
12-13 damage

resistances
50 fire, cold, magic fire, magic cold
100 missile, poison

they are also immune to a lot of status effects but i dont know the full list. i do know that the wand of paralysis doesnt effect them even when they fail their save :(

there are 4 of these crazy guys around kiels resting place. im around 1 lv from the xp cap so not fully capped out yet. i have a custom 6 man party of the following: cleric/magic, draven defender, cavalier, cleric/ranger, swashbuckler, bard. my lowest ac vs slashing is -15 on the cav, the other 2 plate users only have around -10. my lowest thaco is an 8 on the dwarf, so i cant hit these things on any char without rolling a crit.

i have access to tier 3 divine and arcane spells, but not tier 4.

i dont think there is a legitimate way to win this fight. if there is, im open to being proven wrong. but other than using the console i dont even know a cheesy way of taking these things out. any ideas?

[jle30303]

Probably not, but why do you need to? Durlag's Tower is optional... :-)

Also, even if you want to do Durlag's Tower, the contents of the chest are also optional - the Dwarven Doom Guards are non-hostile until you take the contents of the chest.

If you *do* decide to open the chest and take its contents, can you run and make it down the stairs instead of fighting, and will they pursue you?

[House of Rahl]

good point. i may save it for later. my only goal for the tower is the flame sword for the swash. i like the idea of vascona flametonge fire/ice combo. im doing my best to clear down to it. i dont really remember whats needed and what isnt anymore so ive been just slowly going room by room clearing them. its really slow going but if i can get my flashy fire sword it will be worth it.

ill probably avoid this conflict like you said for now and maybe come back later after i get further in the story and get the best defensive items available. after that ill start knocking out all the optional quest i missed including whatever i didnt finish in durlags.

[Tasi]

Cheesy?
Traps?
Spamming Web (well.... you said they have lots of immunities)?
Multiple-hit with reflected Lightning Bolt?

BTW, if somebody enjoys huge (just simple rats in Candlekeep have probable around 5-10 times more HP than your character) stat buff for enemies then no reason for me to complain.
Have you tried Stratagems mod? That's difficulty increase which makes sense. Not just quick Beamdog's "lets add some difficulty options but not spend lots of time with it". I am not sure why they did not incorporated this to the game. They could just negotiate with creators to use it in the game... I guess that was also too much work for them.

[AlexMBrennan]

i dont really remember whats needed and what isnt anymore so ive been just slowly going room by room clearing them

You only need to kill the doom guards if you want the +dex shield or a cursed mace (for some reason); you can even take the healing potions without angering the guards.

Traps?

Thief traps do missile damage so that's not good but I suppose you could try stacking a million skull traps...

Not just quick Beamdog's "lets add some difficulty options but not spend lots of time with it".

Except that Legacy of Bhaal mode is a simple copy of Heart of Fury difficulty from Icewind Dale so you need to be blaming Black Isle of the idea.

[Tasi]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Not just quick Beamdog's "lets add some difficulty options but not spend lots of time with it".

Except that Legacy of Bhaal mode is a simple copy of Heart of Fury difficulty from Icewind Dale so you need to be blaming Black Isle of the idea.

You mean Beamdog's idea to implement this feature to Baldur's Gate, right?
I may be wrong but I do not remember anything like Stratagems for IWD while for BG there is. Implementing Stratagems for IW would be work from scratch while for BG not.

[jle30303]

Rather more to the point, it sounds like your problem isn't defence, it's attack. You need to be able to kill them before they kill you.

[House of Rahl]

thats part of the issue yes. my dwarven defender is lv 7 with a thaco of 7 and 2 attacks per round; +2 weapon, and using the 18 dex gloves. at lv 8 that will drop to 6. its still not low enough to hit on a 19. then throw in chant and technically you can just hit with a 20. getting it so i can land hits bellow 20 would require debuffs like glitterdust or slow to take effect, but those have relatively low chance and i doubt id be able to keep them up long enough to kill all 4. 1 maybe, but definitely not all 4.

[jle30303]

What's his STR? That's the stat you need to increase for to-hit bonuses with the melee weapons that a dwarven-defender should be using.

[jle30303]

Also: Is the XP cap higher on Legacy of Bhaal? LoB is like Icewind Dale's Heart of Fury mode - intended for a full-sized party imported from whatever level you *finished* the game at.

IWD - the game with the original Heart of Fury Mode - has a much higher XP cap than BG1 (at 8 million XP and level 30 - which a normal party, or even a solo character, is never even going to get close to). Basically, a party that had just *completed* the whole game and both expansions (Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster) was just about fit to be imported en-masse, top-level equipment and all, and start a new IWD game on Heart of Fury mode at the high level that it finished the original game.

So, if you can only play at normal-game level, and if the XP cap is still normal-game level, then Legacy of Bhaal is badly designed.

If one (or all) of your characters is level 7, then they're not even at the normal-game XP cap. You're under-levelled. So, does LoB mode actually force you to be under-levelled?

[House of Rahl]

18/65 str

no xp is still limited to 161k

my characters didnt start at the xp cap. they started at lv 1 with 0 xp.

[jle30303]

Hm, in that case Legacy of Bhaal can't be halfway as difficult as IWD's Heart of Fury Mode.

I would still be more likely to recommend playing LoB mode with an "imported" character from a final-save, whch would be at max level, rather than with a freshly generated level 1, although evidently it's doable that way - the way IWD's HoF mode is *not* doable that way.

[House of Rahl]

it is. ive done IWD's heart of fury from lv 1 with 0 xp as well.

[House of Rahl]

IWD's hof gave massive xp. that was in large part why it was so easy to go from lv 1. because the first goblin you killed and bam your already lv 2 kinda thing. i found heart of fury A LOT easier than legacy of bhaal. in legacy you dont get a ton more xp, and things stay consistently hard from begining to end where you cant out level the threat. there have been a few key areas were the difficulty seemed unbalanced. greywolf for instance, or these dwarven doom guards. even the normal doom guard type enemies outside the tower, or in nashkel, or the one outside the tomb where you take the cursed idol. theyre all madenly difficult to fight one at a time. 2+ and your in serious trouble even with max level and great gear.

heart of fury is only difficult for the first part as you clear out the town, and the cave to the east. by the time you leave and get trapped behind the avalache your already leveled up high enough you can now go toe to toe with those goblins; and pretty soon youll out level that and get to the point you can just roffle stomp on them.

[fahrenheit1987]

I eventually beat these by running away a lot. I had those boots that 'haste' you all the time. I lured the dwarven doom guards into a big room and then I ran away from them so that I could use wand of fire, wand of ice and another wand I can't remember the name of to wear them down. This was, in all honesty, my technique for a lot of battles.

[Godsarm]

I look at these tough fights as where to invest the considerable one-shot magic that I'm packing around. Potions that increase STR (Giant Strength), CON (Fortitude), DEX (Agility but also Mind Focusing which each potion stacks to the max of 25). Everyone gets and Invisibility potion in case they need to heal without interruption by drinking it then drinking healing potions. Use Haste, concentrate on one Doomguard at a time. Since they are not hostile to start, you can do all your buffs, potions, scrolls and position your party as you please. It's still a tough fight but you can win.

I don't take on Durlag's tower until after my exit from the Candlekeep catacombs so I'm nearly max level when I get there. I have all of the equipment and magic I need because I've hoarded items to sell stashed somewhere like Beregost or Friendly Arm Inn.