Wisdom for a Kensai/Mage

[Emmental]

I'm just planning ahead here I don't want to end up a ways in to a game and want to rebuild the character. I found this entry in the wiki

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Wish

It says under requirements - useable by a specialist mage of any school. So as a dual class I wouldn't be a specialist mage so I couldn't utilise this anyway making wisdom pointless right? Does anyone know of any reason a high wisdom would be useful for a Kensai/Mage?

[Tasi]

Specialist mages have restriction to spell schools. Non-specialist mage does not have any restriction and can use any (arcane, not divine) spell. On the other hand, specialist mages have more spells per day then non-specialist one.

Words "useable by a specialist mage" means that it can be used by non-specialist mage (since he/she can use any spell) and moreover also by any specialist mage.

Now to your interest Wish spell/Wisdom stat:
Wisdom can be considered (along with Charisma) as possible "bump stat" since it is (more or less) used just for Wish spell and this can be partially solved by drinking Potion of Insight (sets Wisdom to 18 for long time). Depends on you... if you do not have lots of points to allocate (increase your Wisdom to 18), then you will probably end up drinking this potion anyway. So in this case you can avoid spending points to Wisdom completely...

[Tasi]

One more think: I would not recommend dual-class if you do not know rules (and game) well. You may have read how awesome/powerfull Kensai/Mage is. Well... definitely it is very strong build, but I have to say (while I like dual-classing since I like to play humans) from 2 options: multi-class Fighter/Mage and dual-class Kensai/Mage I like much more the former option (multi-class).

You will save yourself problems of leveling up your "now 1st level wizard" hero if you take multi-class option... I will not say which one is stronger (lots of discussions can be found and I will hardly bring anything new to this topic) but both of these options are extremely powerful and I think none of these option is "definitely better" then other - they both have advantages (e.g. like having High Level Abilities from Fighter for multi-class option). Why to recommend multi-class? While it is not weaker (it has some advantages, some disadvantages) it is definitely easier to set up and play immediately.

[Emmental]

Thanks for the input mate. If the wish thing can be solved with a potion that's good to know. I've got the Kensai pre generated and saved for later.

[Gustuv Wynd]

Also...just so it is clear to any that might read this...you don't get that wish spell until far into BG2 and a Kensai will likely die a lot in BG1. It is possible to play the game, but the lack of armor will hurt. You will need to do a lot of hit and run tactics or else be very lucky. Once you get into the game a good ways you will have party members(and a shield amulet) that can buff you for the tough fights, but you can't be buffed all the time. Even after you get some good protection items you will have an AC where you'll still take an arrow from a simple kobold that gets a decent attack roll...a more normal fighter with full plate and the same items will make that kobold need to a roll critical.

I wouldn't recomend playing a Kensai in BG1 if you are just starting out. Really the Kensai/Mage dual class option is for people that just make a character in BG2 since starting it in BG1 is a tough ride. You could dual class in BG1 at Kensai level 3, but it isn't going to make the power house that a Kensai/Mage is in BG2...I think a berzerker would be better at that level. The berzerker rage immunities would be more handy I think.

[wendigo211]

I did a solo run on insane with a Kensai through BG and SoD. It wasn't that bad except for the crits.

You can still use rings of protection, the +3 AC vs. <type> belts and the Senses of the Cat boots> So with the Shield Amulet and the -2 to AC that Kensai naturally get you can get a respectable AC, although you will be chugging potions of invulnerability/defense for the tougher fights.

The big problem is you can't wear a helmet, so any time you do get hit, it's a crit and it's like soloing with 1/2 the HP you would normally have.

Berserker is a lot easier and more powerful, unless you're going past 13 before you dual.

Having said that, I agree with Tasi. If you don't know what you're doing, stick with the multiclassed Fighter/Mage. The downside is that you don't get much of a benefit past level 13 as a Fighter, and your casting progression is slowed down. You also don't get advanced specialization so your DPS will be a little lower.

However, you don't have to go through the downtime of regaining your level (although there is an exploit with scrolls in BG 2 if you want to speed things up). You also get the Fighter/HLAs. The Gnome and Elf are probably the best races to pick if you multiclass.

[[MOSS]-BurningUp]

Originally posted by Tasi:

One more think: I would not recommend dual-class if you do not know rules (and game) well. You may have read how awesome/powerfull Kensai/Mage is. Well... definitely it is very strong build, but I have to say (while I like dual-classing since I like to play humans) from 2 options: multi-class Fighter/Mage and dual-class Kensai/Mage I like much more the former option (multi-class).

It depends on how you look at it and if you're new to BG, what type of hybrid class you're really wanting to do, e.g., and if it's your first playthrough or not.

The problem with multi-classing casters is your caster is basically weak af for the entire BG1 campaign.

If you Dual Class you can just take Kensai first first and then Dual Class down the road eventually.

A level 5, a non-specialized mage only gets 1 measly level 3 spell. BG1 has a very low exp cap.

When BG1 originally came out no one that wanted to play a caster dual classed or multi-classed either one.

[wendigo211]

The reason no one wanted to play a multi-classed caster when BG came out was the XP cap was 89,000 instead of 161,000. With 44,500 XP you missed out on the 1/2 attack from Fighter 7 and level 4 spells as a Mage. With 80,500, you hit Fighter 7/Mage 7, or a dual classed Fighter/Mage can get 7/8. A pure mage in BG can get 5th level spells, but there aren't as many 5th level scrolls as there are in BG2.

[Tasi]

Originally posted by MOSS-BurningUp:

It depends on how you look at it and if you're new to BG, what type of hybrid class you're really wanting to do, e.g., and if it's your first playthrough or not.

Well, if "it depends", then I am curious, what dual-class would you recommend for people who

Originally posted by Tasi:

not know rules (and game) well

Originally posted by MOSS-BurningUp:

The problem with multi-classing casters is your caster is basically weak af for the entire BG1 campaign.

Yes, if your experience points are splitted between caster and other class then you are weaker caster then being pure caster. It is in fact an expected feature of multiclassing/dual-classing - trading being better at one thing or being weaker in two (three) things but being potentially stronger as combination of these weaker things.
Not sure what exactly means "your caster is basically weak". I have soloed the game with both fighter/mage (in fact I went with gnome fighter/illusionist) and pure kensai (also with sorcerer, thief (bounty hunter), bard (blade), dual-class kensai/thief, barbarian) and also finished the game in party with several other classes. For me one of the (if not the most) easiest classes was fighter/mage. I have that feeling for the whole trilogy and not just some parts of BG1 or BG2... it was so universal, so strong, without any important weakness or "dead time" (like after dual-classing losing all abilities and reset back to the 1st level). I am not saying dual-class is weak. I just believe it is much more convenient (and very powerful), especially for inexperienced players, to play multi-class rather then dual-class (which has some advantages and also some weaknesses).

As I said, I am not sure what do you mean by "your caster is basically weak". If you will having problems playing with companions or even solo with multi-class fighter/mage please specify where are you in game and what kind of enemies you have problems with. There are lots of good BG players to help you. I am sure fighter/mage is very strong and it would surprise me to hear that fighter/mage is weak or have problems to be played. Moreover, I consider pure Kensai as class more suitable for experienced players (I like this class - I would just avoid to suggest it to new player).

Originally posted by MOSS-BurningUp:

If you Dual Class you can just take Kensai first first and then Dual Class down the road eventually.

Well, we are just repeating what has been written at many different places before and I wanted to avoid that…
Dual-classing can be relatively fast process for experienced player who knows when and how to quickly level up again but for those who

Originally posted by Tasi:

not know rules (and game) well

it can be really pain. They will lose all their fighter levels, their THAC0, number of attacks, any fighter ability, saves... everything except number of HP. They will become (in this case) just 1st level mage with lots of hit points. They will not regain these amazing things they have just lost until they will level up again to at least 1 level higher that the previous class was. No, it does not happen "eventually".

Originally posted by MOSS-BurningUp:

A level 5, a non-specialized mage only gets 1 measly level 3 spell. BG1 has a very low exp cap.

When BG1 originally came out no one that wanted to play a caster dual classed or multi-classed either one.

Really? How do you know that? I remember how we (with my pen&paper D&D mates) discussed our BG experiences and I remember friend of mine who fell in love to multi-class fighter/mage. Anyway, I do not understand how it affects my advice for inexperienced player to take rather multi- than dual- class.

[Zero]

I would still give your char a decent wisdom if you plan on dualing to mage and using wish in combat. With a low wisdom you'd have to drink a potion, the cast wish which already takes a while, then wait for the djinn to spawn, then talk. In this time a lot of different things can happen. I think you only need 18 wis to get the best results every time and there are 3 tomes of wisdom in bg1 ee, so you can actually start wisdom off at 15 if you want max. If you're not planning on utilizing wisdom that much, I wouldn't worry. In the pre EE days, any party memeber could talk to the djinn after you spawned him so you could just have your cleric talk to him after summoning and solve your problems.