Shapeshifter Class: Pros and Cons

[Nevict]

Hello everyone!

I would like to know what do you think about the Shapeshifter class in Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition.

Do not hold back on anything. I want to know its best properties and its greatest weaknesses.

Also, you are encouraged to share any strategies you know for it.

Thanks in advance!

[jonnin]

I feel it was poorly done and weak. By level 13 you can finally turn into the greater form... which is unable to hit high level enemy (claws not sufficiently enchanted) and does low damage (1d6, 3 attacks, but high str helps a bit). It can't cast in shifted form. You have to sleep to shift forms if you want to use it regularly. Level 13 is too high .. now you are immune to normal weapons, but everything is +1 or better so whoopity do.

Conclusion: if you sleep a lot you can turn your druid into a third rate fighter. Right about the time it starts to get really good nuke spells, you can stop using spells and become a weak fighter, that is. It is on par with the shaman for a good idea gone totally wrong.

Compare to neverwinter nights -- the shifter prestige class that could become all sorts of useful and fun shapes.

note that a normal druid with HLA can pop into a decent elemental form that is superior to this mess without the sacrifice of armor.

It has minor role-playing / fun factor. Its viable because if you know the game, anything is viable. But it is also lackluster. Should have had greater werewolf at leve 10 and some powerful form at 15 and another at 20.

I will add that it scales inversely. IT will feel over-powered in BG1 and be solid through most of BG2.

[Moff]

They're bad, unfortunately.
It just seems that original devs first came up with the idea and implemented the kit, and only afterwards actually sat down and thought it through. Proper werewolf forms, like the ones you encounter in the wild, would've simply been way overpowered, so what you get instead is gimped versions that aren't particularly useful for anything.
Even if turning into a werewolf happens to be your childhood dream, you might be better off picking a mage. Gonna be a while till they can learn how to do it, but at least their werewolf form is quite capable.

[ÄmJii]

You're better off with Avenger kit, they get some shapeshifting abilities too... except they actually have some uses. And you get some good Mage spells to boot, Chromatic Orb & Web & Chaos & Imp. Invisibility rounds up your spell selection very nicely.

[Eisenfell]

Well after people are done bashing on the Shapeshifter druid thinking of super late game content that makes like 10% of the whole saga lets give some facts.

- The only real downside is that you cant use a normal armor in human form. given that there are numerous ways to work around that the point is rather mute so you are basically a Normal druid with special extra form. (Mage Spirit Armor , amulet of shielding , later on Barkskin all those are better than the Armors a normal druid can use minus the possible resistances on the armor)


here is what you can actually do with a Werewolf and what not.

Can in Werewolf...

-Use a Buckler and gain bonus AC.
-Use Single Weapon combat Style and gain +1AC/+1Crit range
-Use Sword/Shield Style and benefit from -2AC to Missiles.
-Use Rings/Necklaces with Bonus AC.
-Use Usable Gear like shield amulet and all other gear with a "use" function while shapeshifted.
- Benefit from Elemental Resistance on Gear (Fire/Cold/Electricity)
-Drink Potions and use Wands/Scrolls usable by druids.
-Benefit From Speed Boots (double movement rate)
-Pick up loot and manipulate his Inventory (you can not switch your weapon though !)
-Suffer from cursed items like the constitution hit of claw from kazgaroth.
-Use Gloves with +hit/dmg and Gauntlets of Crushing (+4hit/dmg with fists) for its 4 Damage Bonus
-Benefit from items who raise values like Str/Dex/Con by 1/2/3 etc


Can't in Werewolf...

-Benefit from Extra magic Resistance , its set to 20 and stays on this. (BG2 Greater werewolf gets extra MR worn after the transformation, but has to requeip it every time)
-Change his base AC1 (-1 with fixed dex) with AC bracers.
-Swap his Weapon or use any Weapon.
-Cast his Druid Spells.
-Change his paws to strike anything Higher as a +2 Weapon. (maybe a problem with some enemy's but you can count those at one "paw".)
-Benefit from gear that sets Values fixed like 18 Dex Bracers. (werewolf still has 16 dex)
-Get Bonus Attacks from Gear.

Note the Greater Werewolf in BG2 gets 40 MR and 80 Fire/Cold/Electricity resistance out the box , so dragon helm or gift of peace make you actually immune to elemental dmg.

With all that in Mind my Tactic for a Shapeshifter is the Following.
Wisdom/Dex/Con 18 is a must have , you could skimp on Strength but you generally want 18 there to (DEX and STR get overwriten by Werewolf but CON is your actuall characters value.
Start out with 1 Point in Daggers/Sword-Shield style, load up with a Buckler and throwing daggers then get going.

You can now be either in second line and support with spells/chug daggers or go front line as Wolf and tank (load up on all AC items!), during BG1 you are equal if not better than a pure Fighter.

beginning with BG2 you will lag behind Fighters , their Gear is getting better , they load up on APR and they have the better THAC0 progression (druids still have second best in game yay!) you will however catch up once you get Greater Werewolf, and then surpass them in matters of tankyness (better AC tons of resistances, Iron Skin etc) but never again in matters of dmg output, this is about the moment then you can gear your druid towards total Magic/Elemental immunity ...just letting him walk into bossmobs/liches and soak up all the magic , but don't ever hope to hit those Bossmonsters since most of them need a +4 weapons and your claws will be capped as +3 piercing.

Note around this time your Barkskin spell will also be good enough to be a replacement for any armor your normal counterpart druids could use so combat in Human form is also possible to make use of high magic items for said bosses , and fling spells freely.


In a Nutshell , Shapeshifter is Valid and Fun, you just have to play him right.

[Nevict]

Originally posted by Eisenfell:

Well after people are done bashing on the Shapeshifter druid thinking of super late game content that makes like 10% of the whole saga lets give some facts.

- The only real downside is that you cant use a normal armor in human form. given that there are numerous ways to work around that the point is rather mute so you are basically a Normal druid with special extra form. (Mage Spirit Armor , amulet of shielding , later on Barkskin all those are better than the Armors a normal druid can use minus the possible resistances on the armor)


here is what you can actually do with a Werewolf and what not.

Can in Werewolf...

-Use a Buckler and gain bonus AC.
-Use Single Weapon combat Style and gain +1AC/+1Crit range
-Use Sword/Shield Style and benefit from -2AC to Missiles.
-Use Rings/Necklaces with Bonus AC.
-Use Usable Gear like shield amulet and all other gear with a "use" function while shapeshifted.
- Benefit from Elemental Resistance on Gear (Fire/Cold/Electricity)
-Drink Potions and use Wands/Scrolls usable by druids.
-Benefit From Speed Boots (double movement rate)
-Pick up loot and manipulate his Inventory (you can not switch your weapon though !)
-Suffer from cursed items like the constitution hit of claw from kazgaroth.
-Use Gloves with +hit/dmg and Gauntlets of Crushing (+4hit/dmg with fists) for its 4 Damage Bonus
-Benefit from items who raise values like Str/Dex/Con by 1/2/3 etc


Can't in Werewolf...

-Benefit from Extra magic Resistance , its set to 20 and stays on this. (BG2 Greater werewolf gets extra MR worn after the transformation, but has to requeip it every time)
-Change his base AC1 (-1 with fixed dex) with AC bracers.
-Swap his Weapon or use any Weapon.
-Cast his Druid Spells.
-Change his paws to strike anything Higher as a +2 Weapon. (maybe a problem with some enemy's but you can count those at one "paw".)
-Benefit from gear that sets Values fixed like 18 Dex Bracers. (werewolf still has 16 dex)
-Get Bonus Attacks from Gear.

Note the Greater Werewolf in BG2 gets 40 MR and 80 Fire/Cold/Electricity resistance out the box , so dragon helm or gift of peace make you actually immune to elemental dmg.

With all that in Mind my Tactic for a Shapeshifter is the Following.
Wisdom/Dex/Con 18 is a must have , you could skimp on Strength but you generally want 18 there to (DEX and STR get overwriten by Werewolf but CON is your actuall characters value.
Start out with 1 Point in Daggers/Sword-Shield style, load up with a Buckler and throwing daggers then get going.

You can now be either in second line and support with spells/chug daggers or go front line as Wolf and tank (load up on all AC items!), during BG1 you are equal if not better than a pure Fighter.

beginning with BG2 you will lag behind Fighters , their Gear is getting better , they load up on APR and they have the better THAC0 progression (druids still have second best in game yay!) you will however catch up once you get Greater Werewolf, and then surpass them in matters of tankyness (better AC tons of resistances, Iron Skin etc) but never again in matters of dmg output, this is about the moment then you can gear your druid towards total Magic/Elemental immunity ...just letting him walk into bossmobs/liches and soak up all the magic , but don't ever hope to hit those Bossmonsters since most of them need a +4 weapons and your claws will be capped as +3 piercing.

Note around this time your Barkskin spell will also be good enough to be a replacement for any armor your normal counterpart druids could use so combat in Human form is also possible to make use of high magic items for said bosses , and fling spells freely.


In a Nutshell , Shapeshifter is Valid and Fun, you just have to play him right.

Huh, I never thought about using the shield to make my armor class better. You gave me some good ideas to work on. I thank you greatly.

[identity]

Shapeshifter is fine in BG1, decent in BG2 and comes into its own after you get over that exp hump to 15, but after, they fall off hard and are near worthless in ToB, and even end game BG2, when everything is immune to your claws. So, I guess it depends on how far you want to take it. If you have no interest in ToB, go ahead. If you're looking for a longterm, game finishing class, just do Druid instead.

Ultimately, it very much feels like not much thought was put into this class for longterm play. They are missing some kit specific epic level abilities that would bring them up to par with other classes.

The argument that you just need to switch to a dedicated caster at the end doesn't make much sense to me. You're basically ignoring your "strengths" at that point to become a typical druid, but you can't actually use good armor and such, so what's the point?

[Eisenfell]

Originally posted by id:

Shapeshifter is fine in BG1, decent in BG2 and comes into its own after you get over that exp hump to 15, but after, they fall off hard and are near worthless in ToB, and even end game BG2, when everything is immune to your claws. So, I guess it depends on how far you want to take it. If you have no interest in ToB, go ahead. If you're looking for a longterm, game finishing class, just do Druid instead.

Ultimately, it very much feels like not much thought was put into this class for longterm play. They are missing some kit specific epic level abilities that would bring them up to par with other classes.

The argument that you just need to switch to a dedicated caster at the end doesn't make much sense to me. You're basically ignoring your "strengths" at that point to become a typical druid, but you can't actually use good armor and such, so what's the point?

BG , BGTotSC , BG SoD , BG2SoA thats 4/5 games you can play with Shapeshifter and aside like a handfull of encounters where your beast claws do not hit thats all valid content , even in ToB you can still fight most enemys, at which point a normal druid would just get messed up in melee so its just natural to use all your class features and be a spellcaster for those fights.

and Reaching 100% magic resist and 100% elemental resist while also being poison immune as Werewolf is so easy to do as werewolf (though MR is buggy and you have to requip the bloody gear all the time) making you with around -13 AC in human form and -20 in Wolf form the best tank that walks around.


as for no armor...best you can hope for as a Basic druid is the White dragon armor , bringing you...yes on also around -13 AC and some ice resistance....big gain. would always pick the crumy normal druid with shapeshifts to bears and wolfs over the werewolf for that awesome armor ! :) #not

[Eisenfell]

Huh, I never thought about using the shield to make my armor class better. You gave me some good ideas to work on. I thank you greatly.

also good to know in BG1 , your Dex gets set to 16 as Normal werewolf , and the only Bucklers of note is Kiels Buckler (+1dex), giving you a extra AC for the 17 dex Bonus.
and Bucklys Buckler (+1con) since you get your own con you can get to 20 with the con book in the coastal cave (easy to get with 2 potions of invisibility) and start naturaly regenerating during sleep/maptravel

very important also all Gloves with Unarmed-combat bonus that happen to not be limited to monks work with the shapeshifter.

like gloves of crushing add the +4 dmg in BG1 (not the to hit sadly)
and in BG2 the Gauntlets of Aln Zek add +3 base dmg and 15% on 1d10 cold dmg , boosting that werewolf output , and im not 100% sure since i have no way to test it right now bit i even think it does dmg to enemys your claws cant hurt.

[identity]

It's a stretch to call tales of the sword coast a game. It's just added content to BG that gets done at the same time. SoD is not canon either, and not part of the original saga, so I don't add it. Importing to BG2 from SoD is not recommended, imo.

[Eisenfell]

Originally posted by id:

It's a stretch to call tales of the sword coast a game. It's just added content to BG that gets done at the same time. SoD is not canon either, and not part of the original saga, so I don't add it. Importing to BG2 from SoD is not recommended, imo.

a Stretch maybe , non the less TotSC is its own game release with many hours of game time , unless you know it all and slam your keyboard to get through the story.

Ofc SoD is not canon , your whole play of BG1 to ToB is NOT canon, and while you can add and leave what you want its still there as part of the Game.
But if you want the canon story of the Bhaalspawn read the wiki Page.

also not importing from the addon made to gab the bridge between BG1 and BG2 ? ..uhh right *tableflip*

[identity]

You clearly care about arguing more than I do. Do what you want and settle down.