To-Hit Rolls Absolutely Wonky?

[maestro]

I don't remember the game being this absolutely impossible.

I'm at the Bandit Camp right now in Chapter... 3? I think? Right after Nashkel Mines. I have Plate Mail on everybody except the wizard, and my main character, a fighter, has Ankheg Plate Armor.

The bandits at the camp for some stupid reason seemingly have an 80% hit rate. Nearly every arrow hits and I get mowed down in seconds near the main camp. No way some <Lv5 bandit should be able to hit -3 AC 80% of the time.

BTW, I'm using 1.3.2 or whatever version because the newest version crashes upon talking to the first NPC so support told me to revert to the "lastest stable" which is 1.3.something.

And I'm not even using Core rules, I'm only on Normal. I think something is very wonky with the RNG or something...

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by maestro:

WTF is the point of just stepping in Nashkel and then going "oh, well I was in Nashkel so I'm just go everywhere else instead of fixing Nashkel's problem even though the party members want to help Nashkel?"

Initially, you don't even know where Nashkel is, except that it's located somewhere to the south. Now, how many areas have you visited on the way south? There's even a village on the way. Beregost. None of your companions complain, if you explore the nearby areas while you travel south, possibly looking for a safer road to avoid more assassins. And when you arrive in Nashkel, where are the mines? Yes, they are not in the same area. But you run into Minsc.

And even if you feel the urge to enter the mines as early as possible without getting better equipment and without helping Minsc first, nobody demands that you rush through the neighborhood to locate the bandits camp. It is quite hidden.

Originally posted by maestro:

You try that on any DM in a real P&P game and they'll laugh you out of the game.

There are good DMs and bad DMs. Off-topic here.

[Kaia]

Turn on the combat rolls and see what's happening first hand. I suspect you have a dose of confirmation bias going on - you remember every time you're hit, because you're forced to deal with the consequences (lost hitpoints) making it a memorable event. While the missed attacks are forgotten because they disappear into the background of all the OTHER missed attacks.

Worst comes to worst just use Sleep. It makes a mockery of almost every encounter before you get to the Gate.

[mrstrider1]

Nashkell Mines is the trigger to stop iron breaking. On your way into and through there you should hopefully be picking up some magical weapons. If your lucky or good you can even pick up a couple +2's while your at it. though your likely to more be working on various +1's. Jaheira and Khalid I thought shut up once you hit the town of Nashkell it'self but that may have changed that I don't remember.

Minsc has the harshest timer in the game but as some have mentioned if you follow what people tell you you can at least clear the mine before following it. (I happen to go to the gnoll fortress first myself but I tend to have 4 people at that moment when I'm recruiting Minsc and his Witch so I need the 5th person to make the mines comfortable.

Somebody already mentioned how to get one +2. A Certain mad priest has another. A third which has been partly mentioned here can be practically just given to you (And I feel morally justified in telling it's attached entity they can't have it back).

There is no need to rush the bandit camp really at all.

[TazzieDevil]

The difficulty level is higher in the enhanced edition than the original game. (IMO at least)
Most fans of these games like it to be as hard as it possibly can be.
So, I guess they cater to that crowd – while the original game accommodated much more casual gamers.

But it’s important to note that you can turn the difficulty down. I played the original series on Core rules and loved it. I play the Enhanced edition on Normal. As I found the core rules too hard for my casual game style.
I like to play the story and trounce the bad guys rather than strategize each battle and play it through a few times to win.
Both are equally valid play styles - just pick a difficulty that suits you. You might find you tuen the difficulty up again when you get some decent gear. Either way -Fare thee well on your adventure through Baldur’s Gate.

[mike_hanna211]

I can verify the OPs claims on the bandits in the Bandit Camp. Even with -4/-5 AC, they seem to hit MUCH more often than bandits you would encounter elsewhere. I typically burn through all healing spells and some Potions of Healing. This is on Normal and Core difficulties.

Additionally, I notice that arrows for sure do more damage than they normally should. I've seen kobolds (not kobold commandos) hit me with arrows doing 8 - 10 damage on a non-critical hit. Not sure how or why they can do this much damage with arrows.

Some things are whack in this game, which is why I never go past Core difficulty. The game already is tipped away from you in balance (mages casting protective spells before encountering them, the aforementioned to-hit and damage of arrows, etc.). I don't like giving AI more advantage than it already has.

[Tecno Cumbiero Vegano]

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

I can verify the OPs claims on the bandits in the Bandit Camp. Even with -4/-5 AC, they seem to hit MUCH more often than bandits you would encounter elsewhere. I typically burn through all healing spells and some Potions of Healing. This is on Normal and Core difficulties.

Additionally, I notice that arrows for sure do more damage than they normally should. I've seen kobolds (not kobold commandos) hit me with arrows doing 8 - 10 damage on a non-critical hit. Not sure how or why they can do this much damage with arrows.

Some things are whack in this game, which is why I never go past Core difficulty. The game already is tipped away from you in balance (mages casting protective spells before encountering them, the aforementioned to-hit and damage of arrows, etc.). I don't like giving AI more advantage than it already has.

The kobols, and not only the commandos, can use +1 and +2 arrows depending on the place you find them, also Piercing Arrows (+3 ones)
The Bandits at camp are Black Talon, which are much better than base bandits

[voehringer_nitron]

I fought Greywolf last night. Based on his stats, proficency points and weapon, (confirmed with both EE Keeper and using Ctrl-Q to add him to the party) he should have been able to do no more than 14 damage. He hit for up to 18.

I have to hit rolls turned on, and it seems that numbers sometimes don't add up. Attacks of mine that should hit sometimes miss. And enemy attacks that should miss will hit.

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by Guts:

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

I can verify the OPs claims on the bandits in the Bandit Camp. Even with -4/-5 AC, they seem to hit MUCH more often than bandits you would encounter elsewhere. I typically burn through all healing spells and some Potions of Healing. This is on Normal and Core difficulties.

Additionally, I notice that arrows for sure do more damage than they normally should. I've seen kobolds (not kobold commandos) hit me with arrows doing 8 - 10 damage on a non-critical hit. Not sure how or why they can do this much damage with arrows.

Some things are whack in this game, which is why I never go past Core difficulty. The game already is tipped away from you in balance (mages casting protective spells before encountering them, the aforementioned to-hit and damage of arrows, etc.). I don't like giving AI more advantage than it already has.

The kobols, and not only the commandos, can use +1 and +2 arrows depending on the place you find them, also Piercing Arrows (+3 ones)
The Bandits at camp are Black Talon, which are much better than base bandits

If that were true about the bandits, wouldn't you earn more than 65xp for killing them? You receive the same amount of xp for bandits no matter where you kill them.

And I've never, ever seen kobolds use magical arrows of any kind. Only kobold commandos use Arrows of Fire +2.

[Tecno Cumbiero Vegano]

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

Originally posted by Guts:

The kobols, and not only the commandos, can use +1 and +2 arrows depending on the place you find them, also Piercing Arrows (+3 ones)
The Bandits at camp are Black Talon, which are much better than base bandits

If that were true about the bandits, wouldn't you earn more than 65xp for killing them? You receive the same amount of xp for bandits no matter where you kill them.

And I've never, ever seen kobolds use magical arrows of any kind. Only kobold commandos use Arrows of Fire +2.

Not really, this kind of game rewards quest completion more than monster slaying as balance due to the quantity of enemies available

[wendigo211]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the bandits in the camp are different from regular bandits. You can check them using EE keeper, they are a mix of "banditc" and the Black Talon Elite.

[TazzieDevil]

In AD&D you didn't get exp. for the +1+2+3 weapons that mobs use - but you do get to cart them to the loot shop and cash in if you survive. A kobold is a Kobold. A well-equipped kobold was just a lot deadlier…
I agree though - BG:EE doesn’t feel like AD&D on Core rules - I played Pen and Paper for years and a 7th level character with a -8 AC was almost unheard of in our games - but when I didn't once manage it I was only getting hit on a natural 20 - because a natural 20 always hits. Except by the final boss on a mission kind of thing.
The other thing with the BG:EE game is the Quest trackers seems to have taken a lesson in being Vague. I never had a problem in the original game figuring out what I should be doing- but in the BG:EE I had to go looking for walkthroughs to figure out the next step here and there - at least once I hit the actual city of Baldur’s gate.

[maestro]

In AD&D you didn't get exp. for the +1+2+3 weapons that mobs use - but you do get to cart them to the loot shop and cash in if you survive.

Humanoids who have +1, +2, +3 weapons usually had levels appropriate. You didn't see Level 1 bandits wielding +2 bows with +2 arrows. No, you saw that crap at Lv7+. A lv7 bandit is worth more XP than a level 1 bandit. The XP gains just don't really seem right, to be honest. We're talking about bandits with a Thac0 of 15 (they would have to be what, at least Lv7 to get that?) wielding +2 items. But yet they give roughly the same XP as Level 1 enemies like zvarts and gnolls. Even wolves that are a lot weaker can give 600+ XP for one, and they rarely hit someone wearing ankheg plate.

I don't know any sane DM that would have 2-6 level 1-2 players fighting hordes of Level 7+ enemies, especially not equipped with ridiculously overpowed junk.

And I notice that the +2 weapons they give you are very rarely anything that you would normally want to use. Shortswords, etc... yeah, nice, I've got three warriors who are specialized in longswords/2h swords and I get shortswords, warhammers, clubs, etc. lol.

[TazzieDevil]

Originally posted by maestro:

In AD&D you didn't get exp. for the +1+2+3 weapons that mobs use - but you do get to cart them to the loot shop and cash in if you survive.

Humanoids who have +1, +2, +3 weapons usually had levels appropriate. You didn't see Level 1 bandits wielding +2 bows with +2 arrows. No, you saw that crap at Lv7+. A lv7 bandit is worth more XP than a level 1 bandit. The XP gains just don't really seem right, to be honest. We're talking about bandits with a Thac0 of 15 (they would have to be what, at least Lv7 to get that?) wielding +2 items. But yet they give roughly the same XP as Level 1 enemies like zvarts and gnolls. Even wolves that are a lot weaker can give 600+ XP for one, and they rarely hit someone wearing ankheg plate.

I don't know any sane DM that would have 2-6 level 1-2 players fighting hordes of Level 7+ enemies, especially not equipped with ridiculously overpowed junk.

And I notice that the +2 weapons they give you are very rarely anything that you would normally want to use. Shortswords, etc... yeah, nice, I've got three warriors who are specialized in longswords/2h swords and I get shortswords, warhammers, clubs, etc. lol.

I agree with you about the bandits - I was just trying to point out that a kobold is a kobold at in 2nd edition they didn’t have levels (half hit dice creatures 1-4 HP) so if they had great gear you - you got the gear - but no extra XP for the kills. I also agree no SANE DM put hundreds of Gold worth of gear on a half-hit dice creature.

Bandits could be any level. I once me a bandit Lord who was a 10th level fighter - just for instance.

When it comes to gear it all really depends on how much magic was in the world. Less magic made for better campaigns in my opinion....

The first game I played had almost no magic. So a +1 sword was amazing.

We also got a DM rating for Role playing and playing your aligmment and characters role in the party. If you got a Good rating the level trainer cost 1500gp a level to train if you got Fair it was 3000gp and if you got poor it cost 4500gp I remember we sold some magic items to pay for our clerics training to 5th level - we needed so many remove curses cast it was the cheapest option.

XP stopped at each level until you trained. As a new player - playing a mage - I got a poor rating as I attacked stuff with a dagger etc (one or two spells and almost no rst was a bit boring for my 13 year old self). I was 2nd level with enough xp to get to third for a very long time - in the end I killed the PC off and played a fighter thief. which was a lot more my speed as a player. :) It was a really tough campaign. But also one of the best I have ever played.. :)

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by Guts:

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

If that were true about the bandits, wouldn't you earn more than 65xp for killing them? You receive the same amount of xp for bandits no matter where you kill them.

And I've never, ever seen kobolds use magical arrows of any kind. Only kobold commandos use Arrows of Fire +2.

Not really, this kind of game rewards quest completion more than monster slaying as balance due to the quantity of enemies available

Irrelevant if the game rewards exploration (which it doesn't, with xp anyway). A bandit killed in the Bandit Camp wields 65xp. That's the equivalent of a level 1 mob. A level 1 mob should only be hitting ACs -3/-4/-5 on a maybe 19 (depending on range bonus), 20 for sure.

Again, doesn't matter what EE Keeper says they are. You're rewarded xp commensurate with the level and special abilities of the defeated monster/NPC. 65xp = level 1.

Originally posted by wendigo211:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the bandits in the camp are different from regular bandits. You can check them using EE keeper, they are a mix of "banditc" and the Black Talon Elite.

Bandits are, literally, "bandit". If they were Black Talon Elites (which they are not), they would say "Black Talon Elite" when you fight them.

Bandits = 65xp
Black Talon Elite = 120xp

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

Originally posted by Guts:

Not really, this kind of game rewards quest completion more than monster slaying as balance due to the quantity of enemies available

Irrelevant if the game rewards exploration (which it doesn't, with xp anyway). A bandit killed in the Bandit Camp wields 65xp. That's the equivalent of a level 1 mob. A level 1 mob should only be hitting ACs -3/-4/-5 on a maybe 19 (depending on range bonus), 20 for sure.

Again, doesn't matter what EE Keeper says they are. You're rewarded xp commensurate with the level and special abilities of the defeated monster/NPC. 65xp = level 1.

Originally posted by wendigo211:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the bandits in the camp are different from regular bandits. You can check them using EE keeper, they are a mix of "banditc" and the Black Talon Elite.

Bandits are, literally, "bandit". If they were Black Talon Elites (which they are not), they would say "Black Talon Elite" when you fight them.

Bandits = 65xp
Black Talon Elite = 120xp

Open it up in EEkeeper, the "banditc" is different from the standard bandit although they are both called "bandits" in game. The XP per kill, which is a specified variable (i.e. not calculated from challenge rating), is set to 65 for both creatures. The area containing the camp, although not the camp itself, also has Black Talon Elites. Bioware downgraded the XP per kill for most creatures in their D&D RPGs to control the leveling rate, as there is much more combat in a CRPG than a PnP session. For NWN they reduced the kill XP to 1/5th it's normal value, I believe it's around the same for the BG saga although I don't have a monster manual to check.

None of this changes that the camp is an area designed for level 5 characters. While the "bandits" in the area have a THAC0 of 12, they also have 23 HP (which is low for a 12 THAC0 creature) and a rather obtuse expert system AI. They are easy to kill for a party that is the appropriate level for the area, or even a solo character who's been following the story path and picked up the, "Senses of the Cat," boots the assassin at Nashkel drops.