Covers and Flanking

[396756666]

Two simple questions:
1) If only one model of a unit is in a full cover, do others get a cover bonus?
2) If I flank a unit in a cover, will it lose its cover bonus versus a flanking unit?

I'm really confused about this mechanic.

[KtX2SkD]

For #1, certain camouflage effects in the game does account for that, such as Fallschirmjäger's from Panzer Elite's Luftwaffe Commander, and British Sappers after being upgraded with PIATs. Add to that the fact that when you hover or click, it shows you colored dots on the terrain, supposedly to correspond to where your units will stand and at what cover level. Both observations suggest cover bonus can differ per model.

For #2, the in-game tip while loading a match says it does, so I'd suppose it works. One possible test comes to mind... MGs usually suppress units quickly at any range, but at maximum range they really suffer in suppressing or hurting units in green cover. If you can build sandbags somewhere where there isn't any other cover (so that the infantry don't jump or move), and get an MG to attack said units, you can confidently get an answer.

[KtX2SkD]

From "Synoptic Guide to Vehicle Cover"[www.gamereplays.org], I've come across a few phrases that are of relevance.

From page 2, which addresses vehicles but we could infer things about infantry from it:

"When a vehicle is in [cover] The direction of the attacks and the positioning of the cover relative to the enemy does not matter[, instead, other factors matter].".

From page 3, speaking about cover in general so I'd guess it directly applies to infantry as well:

"[...] "directional" and "non-directional" [...] simply refer to cover that needs to be between your units and oncoming fire, and cover that does not. All green cover is directional, with the exception of Goliath craters, and all yellow cover is non-directional, with the exception of fences (and a couple other odds and ends I'm sure someone will point out). More to the point, non-directional cover is an area, not an object. Meanwhile, directional cover is always an object".

[396756666]

Originally posted by KtX2SkD:

From "Synoptic Guide to Vehicle Cover"[www.gamereplays.org], I've come across a few phrases that are of relevance.

I'd read just the opposite somewhere: that vehicles do not benefit from covers at all.

Also in many matches I'd seen how good players build one sandbag for one model while the rest of an unit stays uncovered.

[KtX2SkD]

Per that guide vehicles benefit from cover, but it's tricky as there isn't a UI indicator, and positioning is cumbersome especially for larger vehicles, to the point that some large vehicles are unable to use cover at all. There are numbers about it published online & extracted from game files, and they did describe a test or more in that guide.

Perhaps said players just wanted *any* type of cover, and the site they were in for example offered yellow cover for only 66% of the squad, so that one sandbag ensured everyone has some sort of cover? Or maybe they came under fire & they wanna avoid constructing under fire, since the constructors won't fire back, and the unit's defense levels will be critically worse when constructing? A clip or a screenshot is probably needed to judge why such a move is done.

[T-70 X-Wing]

for the first question no even if one model is out of cover entire unit bonuses dont apply.

for the 2nd yes flanking the cover will negate any bonuses from the directional cover furthermore getting at point blank range will also negate cover bonus but getting to that range without taking any casualties is another matter

[396756666]

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

for the first question no even if one model is out of cover entire unit bonuses dont apply.

Here you are obviously wrong. It can't work like that: most of the time some models are out of cover, this would nullify all covers for sure.

[T-70 X-Wing]

Originally posted by 396756666:

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

for the first question no even if one model is out of cover entire unit bonuses dont apply.

Here you are obviously wrong. It can't work like that: most of the time some models are out of cover, this would nullify all covers for sure.

well it happens to me a lot espically on wrecked train map i have a rifle squad taking cover by the overturned train cart and one model sticks out and gets the entire squad killed atleast in my POV anyway not sure about how you experience engagements

[KtX2SkD]

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

getting at point blank range will also negate cover bonus

How does the game define "point-blank range"? From what I know, there are three range thresholds per weapon that affect weapon performance. Are we talking below the shortest threshold? Or instead sharing the same cover as the enemy is what triggers the negation of cover?

[T-70 X-Wing]

Originally posted by KtX2SkD:

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

getting at point blank range will also negate cover bonus

How does the game define "point-blank range"? From what I know, there are three range thresholds per weapon that affect weapon performance. Are we talking below the shortest threshold? Or instead sharing the same cover as the enemy is what triggers the negation of cover?

0-5 meters is point blank range 5-10 meters is close range 10-17 meters is mid range and 17-35 is long range

as an example Thompson rangers have a 80% moving and static accuracy up to 8 meters so from point blank range to near end of close range

another example Rifleman M1 garand and M1 carbine will fire much faster up to 17 meter range at which Cooldown will be identical to Mauser rifle and further beyond 17 range their rate of fire will be lower

Source COH wiki

[Crypto Gamer]

In COH 2 if you are 5 or less meters away from the enemy, cover bonus is not applied,not sure what is the meter amount in COH 1.

I think garrison type cover bonus always applies even from "point blank" attacks but not 100% sure.

Only thing I know if one model is out of cover,rest of models are in cover, then out of cover model soldier can get his whole squad suppresed very easily by an MG as if he is out of cover even if the squad has a cover shield over them.

If every one is physically in cover then they get supressed harder.

Not sure if dmg,accuracy cover bonuses apply per model basis or per squad.

If you flank directional cover like sandbag they will lose their cover bonus.

Throwing a grenade from flanking will deal more dmg to green directional cover units than throwing it from the front of the green cover even if it explodes at the exact same spot......

There are few units which ignore or partially ignore cover bonus like sniper in both cohs,ubersoldats in Coh 2 with a certain upgrade.

[396756666]

>ubersoldats
Lol, what? Are vet 3 knights ubersoldaten?

That sucks very hard that such an important mechanic is unclear. What sucks more is that some models stick out of cover so often, when they could easily fit one; to do so you need to pixel hunt exact spot where full squad will be covered.

[T-70 X-Wing]

Originally posted by 396756666:

>ubersoldats
Lol, what? Are vet 3 knights ubersoldaten?

That sucks very hard that such an important mechanic is unclear. What sucks more is that some models stick out of cover so often, when they could easily fit one; to do so you need to pixel hunt exact spot where full squad will be covered.

i think he refers to obersoldaten in COH 2. Scoped STG upgrades makes them even more annoying to counter because you cant exploit their reverse DPS drawback by ambusing them with CQC units and they ignore Allied LMG units in cover as well so countering them from affar is also out of the question

[396756666]

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

i think he refers to obersoldaten in COH 2. Scoped STG upgrades makes them even more annoying to counter because you cant exploit their reverse DPS drawback by ambusing them with CQC units and they ignore Allied LMG units in cover as well so countering them from affar is also out of the question

Bruh, who cares about CoH2? It really annoys me that when I search any info or videos about THE CoH, I'm always getting stuff about CoH2.

[KtX2SkD]

Originally posted by 396756666:

Bruh, who cares about CoH2? It really annoys me that when I search any info or videos about THE CoH, I'm always getting stuff about CoH2.

Yeah search engine BS pisses me off as well, for so many other games too, & non-games even.

[KtX2SkD]

Originally posted by T-70 X-Wing:

same here too im getting results that doesnt even concern the actual topic i search for as if search engine's evolve to the point they can read our very toughts because i tought about something unreleated search engine literally displays ads for it

• "CYYEwNc8Eaw" on YouTube.
  
• "Goodbye Big Five Gizmodo" on Google. One of the results belongs to Gizmodo and should list all 6 weeks of the experiment, with an introduction article before the week 1 article.