Thoughts on the PE faction

[CPTANT]

(for 1v1)
Just some random stuff on PE as a faction and the holes it has in its gameplay

PE is in a weird space after years of trying to fill in gaps in its arsenal with making other units kinda OP. The problem is that PE is an extremely odd mix of extremely strong infantry and very specialised and often completely useless vehicles that are completely reactionary.

Overall it is impossible for PE to beat high lvl US players. It is not possible to counter riflestall + flamers + airborne doctrine to either AT gun wall + snipers or fast M10/M18, unless there is a huge skill difference. On lower lvl's PE blob infantry to destroy the enemy before he can build this up.

A lot of units for PE are just useless outside of countering 1 specific threat and otherwise offer absolutely nothing. For example the US tank destroyer is also very good against infantry while the marder is completely useless. It is a unit that is only slightly cheaper but far, far inferior. It is only useful in combination with the atht treadbreaker (or by outnumbering the enemy).

PE have no viable counter to supported snipers (you can use cloacked ketten + atht otherwise). This is a huge problem and on its own basically assures PE can't beat high lvl US play.

On the other hand PE completely lacks artillery. The mortar halftrack is an extremely mediocre unit with terrible range while costing 40 fuel. Since every US player will spam airborne keeping them both alive and active will be very hard. You could use hummels, but in 1v1 they come extremely late and force a doctrine that otherwise gives nothing. You also give up the cloaked kettenrad which is basically mandatory. Hotchkiss can work but are sickenly expensive for what they offer.

I think the weird design of PE (such as it parallel tech tree) meant it could never have been properly balanced. It's just a case of trying to fill too many holes with OPness in other areas.

[Ad Vice]

Panzer Elite
So it's for elites only

[Arcamis]

Most high level US players actually complain about how unfair the US vs PE matchup is to them.

PE just has to get the right counters at the right time, then they are golden.

You are just not using things right.

Marader is awesome, I counter pershings with it. Got an airborne blob? Please, let me introduce you to my four acs and mortar. xd

[CPTANT]

Originally posted by Arcamis:

Most high level US players actually complain about how unfair the US vs PE matchup is to them.

Uh, no. None of the 1v1 tournaments has ever been won by someone playing PE....

[Arcamis]

I doubt there many tournaments where the new factions are even allowed, but what do I know. That aside many top players complain about PE and how strong they are vs US. I haven't seen it the other way around. Tournaments are a special occasion kind of thing and you take your data from that instead from the people who are at the top, constantly play and think that fighting PE as US is the difficult match. I haven't heard any top PE players say that they are the ones having the harder time.

This sounds like someone who doesn't know how to play PE well. I disagree with everything:
"extremely strong infantry and very specialised and often completely useless vehicles"
"marder is completely useless"
"PE completely lacks artillery"
"The mortar halftrack is an extremely mediocre unit with terrible range"
"cloaked kettenrad which is basically mandatory"

It sounds like you need to work on your micro, cause that's what this faction is all about.

[Dumais]

PE requires the most micro, so a highly skilled player with this faction is just gonna make full use of it and destroy people.

[CPTANT]

"many top players complain about PE and how strong they are vs US"

Well I am not seeing them anywhere. Replays posted online also don't support that narrative at all.

"This sounds like someone who doesn't know how to play PE well."

M8 I was lvl 14 with PE before the steam version.

You aren't actually discussing anything except appealing to authority in the first place.

[Arcamis]

And I am level 13 right now.

Originally posted by CPTANT:

"many top players complain about PE and how strong they are vs US"

Well I am not seeing them anywhere. Replays posted online also don't support that narrative at all.

"This sounds like someone who doesn't know how to play PE well."

M8 I was lvl 14 with PE before the steam version.

You aren't actually discussing anything except appealing to authority in the first place.

I'm giving my view of things to you with facts. Only complaints I hear from top players are about how ridicolous the new factions are.

Doubt there is any point in pulling the level card here. I don't know about pre steam levels but from what I read from you I'd assume level 14 equates to level 7. Not rubbing it in, just saying, that if I've ever heard any complaints like these, then it is usually from such a level. And I've been top 15 PE in both 1v1 and 2v2 so..... yeah... It's all about the micro. PE units can be useless, but with the right micro they are very strong.
---
And there are replays of this. If you want to talk to some of the very best coh players out there currently then you can watch some coh streams on twitch.

[DesertDust]

Playing as United States against Panzer Elite is unpleasant. Very.

-Mortar halftrack is an outstanding vehicle, if you know how to use it right.
-No one mentioned about Butterfly Bombs and Vampire halftrack when dealing with enemy snipers.
-Booby traps are for free and forces US player to micro much, much more.
-G43 from the very beginning is retarded. Seeing bunch of wounded rifles and hearing that retarded sound can result in PTSD.
-Fast AC can end the game very fast, if someone can micro and use G43 well.
-No, flamethrowers won't counter it, if you remember to use suppressive voley. Well, maybe if they are mixed in a bl0b and you suppress rifles instead of flamethrower. Then just supress flamethrowers, change the target and problem solved...
-Cloaked ketten is retarded.

But - its only my opinion. With some PE players i can win, with some others - not. Sometimes stalling and outcapping is not possible, and i just lose to G43 spam - even, if i manage to destroy a ketten with my jeep.

And if someone says "PE requires good micro", it's just funny. So those PG bl0bs with 6 + squads require good micro? And microing rifles doesn't? :D Perhaps you talk about vehicles, but still...

The most funny thing is, that pgs were supposed to work together with vehicles. But who needs vehicles, if you have such(cheap for what they do) infantry from the very beginning, which you can spam. Strafe and snipers are necessary to deal with them fast and without unnecessary loses. Vetted PIV IST(defensive) has 800 hp +. It can deal with airborne spam. And focus fire from ATHT + munitions halftrack is a viable solution too.

[Arcamis]

Originally posted by DesertDust:

And if someone says "PE requires good micro", it's just funny. So those PG bl0bs with 6 + squads require good micro? And microing rifles doesn't? :D Perhaps you talk about vehicles, but still...

Infantry micro fairly limited, yes we talk about vechile micro.

[PantherNostra]

pe counter against snipers t1 scout cars WTF

[DesertDust]

Originally posted by ZC-9 Black Panther GER:

pe counter against snipers t1 scout cars WTF

You won't counter snipers supported by AT Guns, tanks and BAR equipped rifles by scout cars. Thats the point.

Vampire Halftrack can scout through the fog of war, so you can fire an incendiary round from Mortar HT, use butterfly bombs, or fire hummel, if you have it. These are the most reliable counters.

Imho argument "PE has no counter to snipers" is wrong, because you can often end the game before they appear - by fast AC + G43 spam. Cut off your opponent from fuel and its often over. Even with snipers he will have to put a lot of work to comeback, if at all.

And schwimmwagen "mark target" ability it also exists in this game. :)

[Richartonio]

Originally posted by DesertDust:

-G43 from the very beginning is retarded. Seeing bunch of wounded rifles and hearing that retarded sound can result in PTSD.

Hehe I can relate to that. If I must say so myself, the sound G43s firing in quick succession thanks to Offensive Veterancy is like music to my ears.

On the whole, what makes the Panzer Elite either weak or strong has a lot to do with the weird design they have. I understand Relic at the time was trying to craft something new, but the way the PE is what shapes the gameplay around them, and it is leagues behind the incredible flow the US vs WM has. Oh well, at least they are not the British.

[Ad Vice]

Originally posted by Richartonio:

Originally posted by DesertDust:

-G43 from the very beginning is retarded. Seeing bunch of wounded rifles and hearing that retarded sound can result in PTSD.

Hehe I can relate to that. If I must say so myself, the sound G43s firing in quick succession thanks to Offensive Veterancy is like music to my ears.

On the whole, what makes the Panzer Elite either weak or strong has a lot to do with the weird design they have. I understand Relic at the time was trying to craft something new, but the way the PE is what shapes the gameplay around them, and it is leagues behind the incredible flow the US vs WM has. Oh well, at least they are not the British.

Don't you talk trash about Atkins & the bunch of wankas surrounding him(aka Lt. Bollocks, Capt. Cockrobin etc.)

[Richartonio]

Originally posted by Rat-Catcher:

Don't you talk trash about Atkins & the bunch of wankas surrounding him(aka Lt. Bollocks, Capt. Cockrobin etc.)

Oh, the British still have two great things: top notch voice acting and the best soundtrack in the game. Pity their gameplay is that shallow...

I mean, listening to simple phrases like:

Originally posted by Rat-Catcher:

The Mark IV Churchills are under our command

Originally posted by Rat-Catcher:

25 points remaining. Counterattack now or the day is lost!

They sound... British! Elegant, yet martial. Like music to the ears.

[CPTANT]

You know, I played a lot of games recently both as and against PE and I did change my mind. Most of my experience came from 2.601 in which what I said was very true. But the g43 buff and other buffs make PE able to hold way more territory than before early game.

Mortar halftracks can also indeed be super duper annoying on the maps that allow indirect fire....