The gameplay

[RiskoDad]

I want to preface this by saying: I like a lot about the game (art style, SFX, Character/Monster design, graphically, etc) and I know this is a demo. I don't like the gameplay unfortunately and that's a big deal for a game that you would like to play. I can see you are trying to make a game of this genre while trying to throw your own spin into the progression system by removing the "level up" system for a "gathering/crafting" system. IMO it just doesn't work well with the genre. The gathering is too slow, it may work a little better if you just instant gathered stuff. I never found out a "real way" to cancel crafting (i did figure out that you can waste your skill to cancel it) so if you fail the "perfect gather" you are just stuck there being attacked. The crafting system is fine (it still locks you in the crafting after the pause for crafting menus) but takes away from the pacing of this type of game. If you wanted to still have the crafting system as the progression i think a better way of doing it would to have instant gathering or monsters drop the resources that you craft with (at least then there would be an incentive for you to do the actually gameplay, which is killing the monsters). If you just instantly crafted that would be nice as well, and if there was a hotkey for crafting the item you are currently trying to get so you don't have to go through the menus and can just press it and it crafts that would be good. These are just my opinions on the game as of right now, I'll try it again when it comes out. And the game could be objectively good to a lot of others, just wanted to give this feedback so the devs can do whatever they want with it. Hope ya'll are having a great week.

[Buntkreuz]

While i like it a lot and also the crafting aspect, i think the gathering aspect is what causes issues.
Its too many tasks to perform without enough advantage gain by creating stuff.
I have to search for specific resources, i have to combine them, i have to craft the stuff, crafting takes time where i cant attack and the gain of power afterwards is too minimal.
Especially i feel like there arent enough buffs to the gathering tool, to speed it up or give additional resources.

I also felt, there should be alternative ways to obtain resources, while stuff like the souls should be pick up and be done, not stand still while harvesting.

The worst was the melee play.
The character has to stand still, its slow, clunky, most of the strong enemies are ranged with powerful melee attacks on top, the crossbow is just objectively better to maintain your health and deal with large crowds.

Overall, i have a lot of fun, but it needs a ton more stuff and advantage gain.
Melee should be an attack you do on the move without penalty.
Materials should be easier to get and more ways to obtain them (have enemies occasionally drop stuff like hides etc or have material chests to be found).
Crafting times arent optimal.
Theres no map to orientate.
The map seems to be the same each time, i wished for more randomization or procedural generation. You even have the same enemy appear at the same spot = too scripted.

[Krobill]

Hi ! Thanks for your feedback. Though I can't promise that we will address all your concerns with how the game feels and plays (there are sometimes deeper reasons for things to be like that) we do want to hear a maximum of opinions to shift the experience toward something enjoyable for a maximum of players while retaining the essence of what we want to do.

Just a few notes:
- attacks do lock movement because spirit allies will only appear if you don't move and it's a CORE aspect of the gameplay (if you know the reference, think Archero). Though some attacks for some weapons later on may behave a bit differently.
- gathering can be interrupted with an attack if you don't want to waste a skill charge. By the way attack themselves can be interrupted with the skill. Might transform the attack interrupt into a simple interruption with no attack triggered... Might feel better.
- Some advanced ressources will be harvested only on the bodies of enemies and we will add some ressource drops for some enemies too. Though it will be a secondary source of materials except if you have dedicated items...
- You seem to have missed the shortcut system to craft your favorite items without opening the craftwheel... but instant crafting is a no go. Crafting speed is one of the primary parameter of difficulty / power balance between character classes.
- Current map is not random but some random events / bosses / challenges will appear on it in the early access version. Also, a fully proceduraly generated map will be added. The game will be composed of a mix of random & set maps, for different types of challenges and experiences.

[Warlok]

The crafting and overall speed of play sets this title apart from others, and I appreciate that. I wouldn't mind more actual information in-game though. "Setting my weapon favourite to E in the Crafting Wheel" does not tell me enough, and I died trying to fumble my way through and figure out what the heck you devs were talking about.

You can only carry one weapon at a time, so why would I have to mandate a "favourite"?

Another example of not enough information: I unlocked the backpack easily enough (!), but where is it? Of what consequence is it? At this time, I am assuming I will unlock more aspects of play as I play, including about this backpack.

I can see this game following a wave model, where the bulk of your furious crafting is done in between. That necessitates a break in waves, however... hopefully something that remains a 'thing' throughout play.

[Krobill]

Originally posted by Warlok:

I can see this game following a wave model, where the bulk of your furious crafting is done in between. That necessitates a break in waves, however... hopefully something that remains a 'thing' throughout play.

The waves of enemies do fluctuate but at a certain point there is a base line that requires to be either extremely fast... OR use the tool given by the game to manage that : spirit allies. Sufficiently upgraded, they can protect you against pretty massive onslaughts even without you doing anything. In fact you do have to stay still, but you can collect or craft while they attack.

[Warlok]

Originally posted by Krobill:

Originally posted by Warlok:

I can see this game following a wave model, where the bulk of your furious crafting is done in between. That necessitates a break in waves, however... hopefully something that remains a 'thing' throughout play.

The waves of enemies do fluctuate but at a certain point there is a base line that requires to be either extremely fast... OR use the tool given by the game to manage that : spirit allies. Sufficiently upgraded, they can protect you against pretty massive onslaughts even without you doing anything. In fact you do have to stay still, but you can collect or craft while they attack.

That sounds very cool!

But I am at a loss as to how to 'make a weapon my favourite' in the crafting wheel, which I think was my last objective.

Will try again later. :)

[Krobill]

Select an item (not a category) in the crafting wheel :
- with the mouse above the item you can press [E] or click directly on the star icon i think
- with the gamepad, press X while the item is selected
This toggle the fact that an item is "tracked" or not and its cost will appear on the left even when the wheel is closed.
You can also create shortcuts for items :
- with mouse & keyboard with [1], [2], [3] and [4]
- with the gamepad by using the directional cross

[Warlok]

Originally posted by Krobill:

Select an item (not a category) in the crafting wheel :
- with the mouse above the item you can press [E] or click directly on the star icon i think
- with the gamepad, press X while the item is selected
This toggle the fact that an item is "tracked" or not and its cost will appear on the left even when the wheel is closed.
You can also create shortcuts for items :
- with mouse & keyboard with [1], [2], [3] and [4]
- with the gamepad by using the directional cross

Thanks.

Why do so though? Once I build a Crossbow (for example), I've built it. Unless I can build more powerful versions?...

[RiskoDad]

Originally posted by Warlok:

Originally posted by Krobill:

Select an item (not a category) in the crafting wheel :
- with the mouse above the item you can press [E] or click directly on the star icon i think
- with the gamepad, press X while the item is selected
This toggle the fact that an item is "tracked" or not and its cost will appear on the left even when the wheel is closed.
You can also create shortcuts for items :
- with mouse & keyboard with [1], [2], [3] and [4]
- with the gamepad by using the directional cross

Thanks.

Why do so though? Once I build a Crossbow (for example), I've built it. Unless I can build more powerful versions?...

Yes the first one you build is Crossbow I then you build Crossbow II

[Krobill]

Most weapons and armors can be upgraded up to level 10, except rings and amulets.

[PHOBIE]

>>The waves of enemies do fluctuate but at a certain point there is a base line that requires to be either extremely fast... OR use the tool given by the game to manage that : spirit allies.

>>- attacks do lock movement because spirit allies will only appear if you don't move and it's a CORE aspect of the gameplay (if you know the reference, think Archero). Though some attacks for some weapons later on may behave a bit differently.

>>But I am at a loss as to how to 'make a weapon my favourite' in the crafting wheel, which I think was my last objective.

>>- with the mouse above the item you can press [E] or click directly on the star icon i think

- the spirit allies seem too late in the demo for successful onboarding. at the point they come into play frustration may have lead to quitting. note that the flute unlock comes first and seems to be perceived without enthusiasm. note that both UI and core game-loop seem unintuitive.

- there seems backwards logic in "attacks do lock movement because spirit allies will only appear if you don't move" because someone invented that mechanic in the first place. the result isn't the source of a causal chain.

i see the constant stopping as breaking the flow of the game, compare this to unwittingly picking the "wrong" hero for "gunstar heroes" and end up lagging behind your friend who doesn't have to stop to shoot. it's not a matter of taste "game-not-for-you" problem.

archero clone i tested plays more fluidly and has auto-fire with unlimited range. moving left and right there means sidestepping, and covers a wider distance quickly.

in "rogue arrows" we see that concept, sadly the release had less snappy movement than the demo. the core playability of dodge there comes from the fact that movement is a quick evade while active dodge gives a second chance to reposition on a timer.

there's a strong difference between snappy hopping and positioning using auto-aim & auto-fire: versus slow movement while holding mouse-left-click down all the time. the demo shows a lack of pounce and peck, and pacing issues: it doesn't transmit a feeling of urgency or has tools to address it.

- in my test E had to be held to lock in a "favorite" (mouse doesn't work): it's not readily apparent what that does, nor does collecting the recipe give a hotkey to complete the recipe, some automation and better feedback cues would help there. interface can use streamlining for minimal interference, options not accessible in-game is a no-go.

it's somewhat of an issue when Dev has to explain to players how to use the UI because the game isn't intuitive. i take it from the feedback that the demo undercut expectations in the QOL department while everyone was happy about the art concept & potential.

hope this helps.