Master Levels

[Pvt. Parts]

I’m old enough to remember Master Levels for Doom II in a box copy at my local WalMart. Even back then I was suspicious of level add-on packs, so I never bought it. But now, almost 30 years later, I finally got around to trying these. I’m on level 18 out of 20, and oh boy… What a bunch of shovelware crap these are. It’s hard to believe it, but I even like Sandy Petersen’s infamous city levels better than this junk.

Now is the point where someone is going to point out that some of the authors later became famous and influential level designers in the gaming industry, to which I say, “So, what?” I realize these levels were made at what could be considered the dawn of the FPS genre, so certain conventions and quality standards had yet to be established. But considering the levels were handpicked by John Romero, who created the amazing original levels for Knee Deep in the Dead, I’m thinking he must have had to sort through a whole lot of dreck to arrive at this list of 20. While these levels show an occasional flash of inspiration, you have to put up with a whole lot of annoying to get there.

Anyway, I’m going to perservere and finish the level pack, but I can’t see a replay coming any time soon.

[Kura]

yeah the master levels are basically a meme lol. most of them are kinda whatever but the stinkers really stink. shoutouts to the mandatory secret invisible bridge yellow key btw. and the entirety of titan manor. and that one level (combine?) that starts you in a secret sector. and probably more funnies i can't think of rn.

[AWMonopolyMan]

Originally posted by Pvt. Parts:

I’m old enough to remember Master Levels for Doom II in a box copy at my local WalMart. Even back then I was suspicious of level add-on packs, so I never bought it. But now, almost 30 years later, I finally got around to trying these. I’m on level 18 out of 20, and oh boy… What a bunch of shovelware crap these are. It’s hard to believe it, but I even like Sandy Petersen’s infamous city levels better than this junk.

Now is the point where someone is going to point out that some of the authors later became famous and influential level designers in the gaming industry, to which I say, “So, what?” I realize these levels were made at what could be considered the dawn of the FPS genre, so certain conventions and quality standards had yet to be established. But considering the levels were handpicked by John Romero, who created the amazing original levels for Knee Deep in the Dead, I’m thinking he must have had to sort through a whole lot of dreck to arrive at this list of 20. While these levels show an occasional flash of inspiration, you have to put up with a whole lot of annoying to get there.

Anyway, I’m going to perservere and finish the level pack, but I can’t see a replay coming any time soon.

To be entirely fair, Jim Flynn, Cranium and Dr Sleep’s levels have been complied with others they made to make in order, Jim Flynn’s Titan, Cranium’s Cabal and Dr. Sleep’s Inferno. I would suggest checking those out afterwards as it compiles the Master Level entries with other entries they made to make a more coherent series for each other

[V I D A L]

Still better than TNT overall.

[-|Nur|-]

It was never highly regarded.

[Doomerang]

You can play it once for the novelty, but NEVER subject yourself to that torture ever again. SO MANY BETTER MAP PACKS!

[Inquerion]

Originally posted by Doomerang:

You can play it once for the novelty, but NEVER subject yourself to that torture ever again. SO MANY BETTER MAP PACKS!

Which ones do you recommend?

What's your opinion regarding these?
- Sigil
- Legacy of Rust
- No Rest for the Living

I'm considering playing these once I finish Doom 1 and 2 base game campaigns (I'm currently in the middle of Doom 1).

I will probably skip these since I heard they are either poor or very hard/tedious. I'm not really a hardcore FPS player:
- Plutonia
- TNT
- Master Levels

[Seamus]

Sigil is good for a doom 1 mapset. It can feel kinda... out of time as Romero doesn't have the 25+ years of community mapping trends that evolved and instead maps like himself.

No Rest For The Living is a pretty great doom 2 level set. I'm glad it's finally officially on pc. Was originally stuck on xbox.

Legacy of Rust is... divisive. I like E1 and parts of E2. I think it could be improved.

[Endy73]

It's more a history of obtrusive level design than anything else. I can kinda suggest on what reasons this or that decision of the creators was based, but, man, it's obsolete, irritating, doesn't teach you something new, doesn't send you any message, but "stop playing it" and it's not fun at all. No one mentioned that one has to run sometimes into powerups in order to pick up them. Why? To show us the possibility, I suppose)

[Le Perv]

Originally posted by Seamus:

No Rest For The Living is a pretty great doom 2 level set. I'm glad it's finally officially on pc. Was originally stuck on xbox.

No Rest for the Living is also in the Doom 3 BFG edition.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by 76561198066568156:

Originally posted by Seamus:

No Rest For The Living is a pretty great doom 2 level set. I'm glad it's finally officially on pc. Was originally stuck on xbox.

No Rest for the Living is also in the Doom 3 BFG edition.

Bfg is also one of the worst versions of Doom and Doom 2.

[Firewalk]

I tried really hard to play through these, seeing how I never did so before (manually loading every WAD over and over isn't my idea of fun).

But man these are bad. Once I realized I could level select to the final map and get the completion achievement that way, I never looked back.

These are the least appropriately named levels in existence.

[Le Perv]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by 76561198066568156:

No Rest for the Living is also in the Doom 3 BFG edition.

Bfg is also one of the worst versions of Doom and Doom 2.

It's just the X360 port of the games. Personally I preferred it over the Bethesda port. What makes it one of the worst though?

[Seamus]

They're absolutely godawful ports with cut down wads.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_3:_BFG_Edition#Differences_with_Doom_and_Doom_2

Seriously any other version on pc is better.

[Le Perv]

Originally posted by Seamus:

They're absolutely godawful ports with cut down wads.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_3:_BFG_Edition#Differences_with_Doom_and_Doom_2

Seriously any other version on pc is better.

Ah yeah I forgot about the secret level changes.

[Inquerion]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Sigil is good for a doom 1 mapset. It can feel kinda... out of time as Romero doesn't have the 25+ years of community mapping trends that evolved and instead maps like himself.

No Rest For The Living is a pretty great doom 2 level set. I'm glad it's finally officially on pc. Was originally stuck on xbox.

Legacy of Rust is... divisive. I like E1 and parts of E2. I think it could be improved.

Thanks. Enjoy a reward.