A switch in Master Levels "Black Tower" is broken

[Chillidoge]

Title

Reference: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PF5ERwUYgvs

Switch at 0:47 seconds is broken and glitches out the switch it opens to the right (the gates lock and don't open). This causes the switch you just pressed to lock, softlocking the level.

Was this a glitch from the original, or is this a new n tasty addition? I CBF redoing the level so just cheated past the problem.

[AWMonopolyMan]

I didn’t run into this issue whatsoever, as long as you activate all the switches you see in sequence, then there should be no problem at all

[D4NUK1]

Original too, happened to me on ZDOOM

[Snufflegrunt]

An obscure 90s Doom level is broken?! Whatever next?!

Tbh, I'm not sure they should've included the MLs. Those maps should've been in the "add-ons". Sure, they're technically official, but even at the time they were regarded as mid and so they're barely worth playing today if at all. Historically relevant but that's about it. There should at least be a disclaimer in the description that tells the player to expect 3/10 quality.

[angstlicht]

Originally posted by AWMonopolyMan:

I didn’t run into this issue whatsoever, as long as you activate all the switches you see in sequence, then there should be no problem at all

i also didn't really have any problems with the level scripting or switches when i played through this, or really any map in this collection, except for TNT evilution's mt. pain (there's a room with a central radiation suit on a hurt floor surrounded by cacos that has multiple conditions that i think are pretty easy to break).

not saying the black tower level can't break, it's a KEX port of a master level, and the caco spam toward the end is jank, but this just wasn't something i remember encountering. on this map or any other map.

[Chillidoge]

Originally posted by D4NUK1:

Original too, happened to me on ZDOOM

Figures haha

[Chillidoge]

Originally posted by angstlicht:

Originally posted by AWMonopolyMan:

I didn’t run into this issue whatsoever, as long as you activate all the switches you see in sequence, then there should be no problem at all

i also didn't really have any problems with the level scripting or switches when i played through this, or really any map in this collection, except for TNT evilution's mt. pain (there's a room with a central radiation suit on a hurt floor surrounded by cacos that has multiple conditions that i think are pretty easy to break).

not saying the black tower level can't break, it's a KEX port of a master level, and the caco spam toward the end is jank, but this just wasn't something i remember encountering. on this map or any other map.

I think I just got unlucky and the solution was to either redo it or just noclip to the exit, didn't actually realise this specific port was KEX so there you go.

[Heathen]

Originally posted by Snufflegrunt:

An obscure 90s Doom level is broken?! ... Those maps should've been in the "add-ons". Sure, they're technically official, but even at the time ... There should at least be a disclaimer in the description that tells the player to expect 3/10 quality.

As someone who never played the Master Levels before this port, I agree. They were my third stop on the game because they were the third entry.

Chronological order is definitely a bad way to present the game to new players. Doom 2 maps are also a mix of mid but the master levels are a mix of very good, good, and flawed to the point of just having terrible ideas (like shooting a normal switch instead of using it, or forcing a particularly weird movement jump that an author thought was 'Master Skill') that are clearly symptomatic of the era and are in isolation very bad levels.

For all its flaws, it's bad that Plutonia is so low. And then it's worse that the best modern episodes are at the bottom. They couldn't exactly do the list bottom up but I actually agree with the disclaimer idea.

[Chillidoge]

Originally posted by Heathen:

Originally posted by Snufflegrunt:

An obscure 90s Doom level is broken?! ... Those maps should've been in the "add-ons". Sure, they're technically official, but even at the time ... There should at least be a disclaimer in the description that tells the player to expect 3/10 quality.

As someone who never played the Master Levels before this port, I agree. They were my third stop on the game because they were the third entry.

Chronological order is definitely a bad way to present the game to new players. Doom 2 maps are also a mix of mid but the master levels are a mix of very good, good, and flawed to the point of just having terrible ideas (like shooting a normal switch instead of using it, or forcing a particularly weird movement jump that an author thought was 'Master Skill') that are clearly symptomatic of the era and are in isolation very bad levels.

For all its flaws, it's bad that Plutonia is so low. And then it's worse that the best modern episodes are at the bottom. They couldn't exactly do the list bottom up but I actually agree with the disclaimer idea.

Yeah exactly Master Levels was below Doom 2 so I was like Imma play that one next.

Honestly, they coulda skipped Master Levels entirely and left it optional. The first 4-5 levels were alright but DAMN they drop off super hard after that.

[Pvt. Parts]

Having just played through Master Levels for the first time myself, Black Tower was easily the most irritating of the bunch. It broke my will to play without saves and I ended up abusing quicksaves throughout just to finish it so I could move on.

[Snufflegrunt]

Originally posted by Chillidoge:

Honestly, they coulda skipped Master Levels entirely and left it optional.

It is optional. It's all optional. No one is forcing you to play them. In fact, no one is forcing you to play any video game at all. If you want the achievement, just go to the last map and type "iddqdidkfaidclip" before going to the exit / killing the boss in seconds.

[Unquestioning Soyim Altruist]

Originally posted by Snufflegrunt:

Originally posted by Chillidoge:

Honestly, they coulda skipped Master Levels entirely and left it optional.

It is optional. It's all optional. No one is forcing you to play them. In fact, no one is forcing you to play any video game at all. If you want the achievement, just go to the last map and type "iddqdidkfaidclip" before going to the exit / killing the boss in seconds.

Where is the quality assurance team? Rahjeed can't even bother to test the game when he's paid?

[angstlicht]

Originally posted by Unquestioning Soyim Altruist:

Where is the quality assurance team?

i think those are the ones who put the bethesda logo on the game to warn people away

[Chillidoge]

Originally posted by Pvt. Parts:

Having just played through Master Levels for the first time myself, Black Tower was easily the most irritating of the bunch. It broke my will to play without saves and I ended up abusing quicksaves throughout just to finish it so I could move on.

Pistol start only next? hehe

Good to know you enjoyed the other maps tho.

[Snufflegrunt]

Originally posted by Unquestioning Soyim Altruist:

Originally posted by Snufflegrunt:

It is optional. It's all optional. No one is forcing you to play them. In fact, no one is forcing you to play any video game at all. If you want the achievement, just go to the last map and type "iddqdidkfaidclip" before going to the exit / killing the boss in seconds.

Where is the quality assurance team? Rahjeed can't even bother to test the game when he's paid?

Historical preservation. It's nothing to do with testing. It just shouldn't be placed in the game where it is and should have a massive disclaimer in bold red font right at the top, stating words to the effect of "do not expect quality but these levels are part of Doom history."

[Pvt. Parts]

Originally posted by Chillidoge:

Pistol start only next? hehe

Good to know you enjoyed the other maps tho.

I mostly did the Master Levels from pistol starts, not via the Pistol Start option in the menu, but just from dying, which I did plenty of. Some of the maps were challenging and enjoyable from a pistol start… and others were absolutely soul crushing, with very little ammo or health at the level start.