Doom is 3D, limited but still 3D.

[Ikagura]

Why are people still debating about this subject when it has been proved that there are still Z-axis elements in the game's code?

Sure it's not a fully polygonal 3D like Quake but there are too many elements in gameplay and the game's code taking the height of the player and some monsters into account (like being able to run under a projectile if you're being fast enough).

I don't get why there are people going "Ackchyually, Doom is 2.5D because it has raytracing and cannot have rooms over rooms" when 2.5D mostly refers to 3D rendered games with only two axes (like in a side scroller, Metroidvania or even action/RPG) and that it's quite arbitrary for "3D games with 2D sprites" when it's mostly a visual style (like many PS1 era JRPG).

https://youtu.be/ZYGJQqhMN1U?si=dr4dp8Z2zLmn1HT8
https://youtu.be/CLRvPJppwsM?si=B3_ril3hQdeK72sI
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Z-clipping

[ZERO]

When I was a kid, Whenever I'd use prodigy or Netscape to traverse the world wide web and look for doom clones, shareware, demos or whatever. I'd search for "3D games". And because of that I got to try out Decent, Rise of the triad, Wolf 3d, Heretic, Hexen and etc.

They might not technically be true 3D (Decent aside) but the internet at the time didn't know any better and neither did I.

It was a fun time.

[Ikagura]

Origineel geplaatst door Captain n00by:

If you don't want to call DooM "2.5D", you can also call it "limited 3D" if you so wish.

2.5D sounds arbitrary because it refers to 2.5D platformer (or games like Metroid Dread) instead of a proper engine naming.

Maybe "non polygonal 3D" could somehow work.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door Ikagura:

Maybe "non polygonal 3D" could somehow work.

Also valid.

[DireSpawn]

coding is like no d bruh its all in the mind and if the no d code puts 3d in the mind its 3d duuuuuuude it all makes sense im trippin

[Ikagura]

Origineel geplaatst door DireSpawn:

coding is like no d bruh its all in the mind and if the no d code puts 3d in the mind its 3d duuuuuuude it all makes sense im trippin

Lay down the weed before commenting.

[PainkilleR]

Origineel geplaatst door MechBFP:

Yes they are. Doom uses exclusively 2D rending techniques, absolutely nothing 3D in nature about them.

What do you mean by "exclusively 2D rendering techniques"?

[Edward850]

Origineel geplaatst door tcassat:

Basically, Doom uses a 2D map to render 3D environments.

No the map is 3d as well, it explicitly has height information, otherwise sectors couldn't have height in game at all.

[NY_Knux]

It's not 3D. It doesn't process three different planes/axis. You as the player are not even moving.

[Jack.K Drack]

https://youtu.be/ZYGJQqhMN1U

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door NY_Knux:

It's not 3D. It doesn't process three different planes/axis. You as the player are not even moving.

Except it does.
Decino even answered a question to me: If you turned off the Autoaim in the Doom source code, hitscan shots would go over and under their targets.

[Seamus]

Origineel geplaatst door NY_Knux:

It's not 3D. It doesn't process three different planes/axis. You as the player are not even moving.

If that were true the calamity blade wouldn't miss flying targets.

[MechBFP]

Origineel geplaatst door PainkilleR:

Origineel geplaatst door MechBFP:

Yes they are. Doom uses exclusively 2D rending techniques, absolutely nothing 3D in nature about them.

What do you mean by "exclusively 2D rendering techniques"?

Exactly what I said, it uses rendering techniques that are 2D in nature. Everything drawn on the screen is done in a 2D fashion, the rendering engine has no concept of 3D. What we see in the game is essentially an illusion of 3D like drawing a cube on a piece of paper. If you move the paper around the 3D object on the paper doesn't move like a real 3D object would. In moderns games they use actual 3D rendering techniques, like if you had a real cube in front of you that you could move around. That is the difference.

[MechBFP]

Origineel geplaatst door Edward850:

Origineel geplaatst door tcassat:

Basically, Doom uses a 2D map to render 3D environments.

No the map is 3d as well, it explicitly has height information, otherwise sectors couldn't have height in game at all.

That has nothing to do with the rendering engine, other than telling it what additional 2D things to render at that location.

[PainkilleR]

Origineel geplaatst door MechBFP:

Origineel geplaatst door PainkilleR:

What do you mean by "exclusively 2D rendering techniques"?

Exactly what I said, it uses rendering techniques that are 2D in nature.

No, I mean which rendering technique are you referring to as a 2D?

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door MechBFP:

Origineel geplaatst door PainkilleR:

What do you mean by "exclusively 2D rendering techniques"?

Exactly what I said, it uses rendering techniques that are 2D in nature. Everything drawn on the screen is done in a 2D fashion, the rendering engine has no concept of 3D. What we see in the game is essentially an illusion of 3D like drawing a cube on a piece of paper. If you move the paper around the 3D object on the paper doesn't move like a real 3D object would. In moderns games they use actual 3D rendering techniques, like if you had a real cube in front of you that you could move around. That is the difference.

It's possible to create a 3d object of sorts on Doom Engine, but doing so on ole computers would be hard on the CPU. Basically you can create an actor that spawns actors on various positions around itself to create a pseudo-voxel. It would work similar to voxels worked early on (scaled pixels in a tridimensional grid), and would still be a bunch of grouped 2D sprites (well, pixel, but...), and doing this to each frame would be... Yeah, not very good to do, not good on the system.

In theory, it should be possible to "easily" add Voxel support to do. Emphasis on quote-easily-unquote