Dry Docks Orc Pathing Issue

[Frosey]

On Dry Docks map, when the rift is in the lower left quadrant of the map, there's an issue when pathing orcs alongside the catwalk in the rift's location. The big orcs often get stopped on this column while walking up the stairs.

If I use a barricade to force the orcs to take the path between it and the column, sometimes the pathing big orcs will go red on my other barricades. and sometimes they just get stuck on the barricade until the slowly center themselves on the open path and walk through.

I've already experienced the enemies attacking my barricades in a wave which prompted me to try to figure out what was wrong with my barricade setup.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423446522

At first I thought the barricades were bugged since I was trying out the new barricades, but it seems to just be this one spot (so far).

[Agent Glaze]

Orcs and stuff have recently been getting stuck on barricades I've noticed (sometimes their whisps not even turning red), even though they have free pathing.

[Cauldraborn]

I personally haven't ran into any pathing issues on Dry Docks nor most maps. I see them sometimes do that in the image but when the wave goes it doesn't happen. Only time I had a pathing issue it had me laugh, it was on the Mansion level behind the rift area at the corner stairs from the kitchen to library section. Had a barricade placed to make them take a corner wider and during a wave a treasure lizard spawned and was running around. Some how he got caught between the barricade and wall and just stood there dying slowly, that's has been the only time I've seen it happen and it was amusing to see lol

I don't know if it's the case but I always make sure for the pathing that it's 1 floor trap wide as big orcs can't take a smaller path unlike the smaller orcs. I've seen when making paths that the big ones would go red if the path is half a trap wide but I that's all I can think of and I assume most people keep the path at least a trap wide in the first place.

[KellyR]

There are several pathing bugs I can think of. Some in Mansion Hedge Maze, one in Fish Market, probably others that aren't coming to mind.

I'll take some screenshots, but they're fairly unintuitive issues that block Ogres and Trolls specifically, even though there's a full spike trap worth of space for them to walk through.

[KellyR]

Screenshots of the Mansion Hedge Maze issue here.

I always use this as my killbox on MHM:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853230
Force them through the tight corridor under the stairs, and then around towards the rift. Simple routing. However, ALL the grid squares that have the lanterns on the wall block Ogres. Which sort of makes sense, except that it behaves weirdly.

If I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853362
The Ogres and Trolls will get angry and smash barricades. They refuse to path through the square with the lantern hanging over it. Fine, BUT, if I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853486
Then they happily path through that same damn square. All I did was move the barricade by one standard trap width. They're still crossing the same squares, but now they're happy. For some reason.

[KellyR]

In Fish Market, here's a bug that's basically inexplicable. I have NO idea why this particular barricade location breaks Ogre/Troll pathing, but it does.
https://steamusercontent-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/60337643282383512/7853C539B4932703A35EC5C909E71C64DDD57B32/

Video to show it happening.

And a screenshot to illustrate the specific block in question:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423859173
It's the block on the very end of this set of barricades, which doesn't make any sense. If it's the torch on the wall that's causing problems, the Ogres and Trolls were already having to path past it, but adding a barricade that has completely clear space around it on all sides breaks Ogre pathing for... some reason?

This one actually bit in the butt earlier today, as I'd been gradually mazing the Orcs through that whole area and as I got more money, I added to the maze. So it was a later wave, and that block was in such an innocuous position it never occurred to me that I'd need to check on the Ogre ghosts to make sure they weren't going into angy mode. So I lost like half my rift points when they smashed through my routing barricades next to the rift.

[Red Mantis]

So I think what is happening is the torches/lanterns count as a small barrier like an auto ballista size. Thats what is causing issues for the tall guys.

Originally posted by KellyR:

Screenshots of the Mansion Hedge Maze issue here.

I always use this as my killbox on MHM:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853230
Force them through the tight corridor under the stairs, and then around towards the rift. Simple routing. However, ALL the grid squares that have the lanterns on the wall block Ogres. Which sort of makes sense, except that it behaves weirdly.

If I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853362
The Ogres and Trolls will get angry and smash barricades. They refuse to path through the square with the lantern hanging over it. Fine, BUT, if I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853486
Then they happily path through that same damn square. All I did was move the barricade by one standard trap width. They're still crossing the same squares, but now they're happy. For some reason.

So I think what is happening is the torches/lanterns count as a small barrier like an auto ballista size or maybe sawblade size. Thats what is causing issues for the tall guys.

So basically your running into an issue where:
XO OR XX
OO --- OO
X= invalid movement, O = acceptable movement

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Red Mantis:

So I think what is happening is the torches/lanterns count as a small barrier like an auto ballista size. Thats what is causing issues for the tall guys.

Originally posted by KellyR:

Screenshots of the Mansion Hedge Maze issue here.

I always use this as my killbox on MHM:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853230
Force them through the tight corridor under the stairs, and then around towards the rift. Simple routing. However, ALL the grid squares that have the lanterns on the wall block Ogres. Which sort of makes sense, except that it behaves weirdly.

If I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853362
The Ogres and Trolls will get angry and smash barricades. They refuse to path through the square with the lantern hanging over it. Fine, BUT, if I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3423853486
Then they happily path through that same damn square. All I did was move the barricade by one standard trap width. They're still crossing the same squares, but now they're happy. For some reason.

So I think what is happening is the torches/lanterns count as a small barrier like an auto ballista size or maybe sawblade size. Thats what is causing issues for the tall guys.

So basically your running into an issue where:
XO OR XX
OO --- OO
X= invalid movement, O = acceptable movement

Yeah, like I said, that one at least you can tell that it's the lantern that's causing the problem, but the behavior feels inconsistent, which isn't good for player happiness.

The Fish Market one on the other hand I can only say is an outright bug, because the behavior is so weird.

[Red Mantis]

Originally posted by KellyR:

Yeah, like I said, that one at least you can tell that it's the lantern that's causing the problem, but the behavior feels inconsistent, which isn't good for player happiness.

The Fish Market one on the other hand I can only say is an outright bug, because the behavior is so weird.

Agree with you 100%

[Cauldraborn]

Huh that's rather interesting, was going to check the clip you posted but ran into a format issue preventing me to watch it, really gotta sort that out.... Still I'll have to bare in mind to watch objects on walls and the ceiling for potential pathing problems going forward. The image Frosey posted on Dry Docks with the ogre against the wall, I've had that happen a number of times but it never caused problems during the run at least and it's the only real odd one I'd spotted so far.

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Cauldraborn:

Huh that's rather interesting, was going to check the clip you posted but ran into a format issue preventing me to watch it, really gotta sort that out.... Still I'll have to bare in mind to watch objects on walls and the ceiling for potential pathing problems going forward. The image Frosey posted on Dry Docks with the ogre against the wall, I've had that happen a number of times but it never caused problems during the run at least and it's the only real odd one I'd spotted so far.

Yeah, when they get stuck against a wall or whatever, it doesn't generally cause problems, and even if that happens during the wave, they don't attack the barricades, they just stay stuck and you can go kill them at the end so it's no problem.

Anything that IS going to be a problem makes the ghosts turn red and start simulating attacks against the barricades (Tho at least one time I swear a ghost actually did damage to a barricade, it was weird). So just always make a point of checking the ghosts before you start. Especially if you're not seeing any Ogre ghosts at the killbox, because often times they turn red and attack barricades much much earlier, even though the blockage is at the killbox, or even after it. So if you're working in the killbox you don't see the red Ogre ghosts, and it's easy to miss.