Suggetions to improve the upgrade system

[Heaphaistos]

I think the devs need to work on the roguelike craziness of the game, right now most threads are mostly stats boosts which is boring and reduces the potential of a unique build. In addition, there's almost no synergy between threads. The fun part of a roguelike is how weak you are at the start of a game and then how powerful and unique you are at the end of the game.

General Threads

First, let's talk about the cluttering issue with the upgrade system. The game has too many weak/bad/situational upgrades, and having so many of them clutter the upgrade pool with unfun choices. I know they added the reroll to make this aspect less of an issue, but why not make them fun and interesting instead? I rather have fewer upgrades but more impactful ones. So here are some of my ideas:
(Don't look at the numbers, this is just some ideas so nothing is balanced)

Remove these Threads

These threads are legit bait for newbies, and wasting an upgrade on these is not worth it. Something I want when choosing an upgrade is hesitating because all my choices are really interesting/impactful.

1up (+1 Rift point)
Bonus check (+5000 Rune Coin)
Freebie (Next chest is free)
Instant overdrive (refill overdrive)
Rift Healing (Heal over time while standing next to the Rift)
Senior Discount (Dying to a hazard will only cost 1 rift point)
Skull Collector (+100 skulls)
Mulligan (Your first death each mission cost no Rift Points)

Combine/Change these Threads

All the drop increases such as potion, coin, overdrive potion, rift point, and skulls => Combine them (Instead of having to pick a bunch of threads)

Lane changer I, II, III (+1 barricade) & Elite Lane Changer (+2 barricades) => +4 barricades and increase the barricade's health by 15%. (Instead of having to pick a bunch of threads)

Poison Immunity, Infection Immunity & Wound Immunity => Combine them and Add 750 health point.

Petrification Immunity, Root Immunity & Silence Immunity => Combine them and Add 750 health point.

Robust Vitality I, II, III (+1000 Health) & Unexpectedly Resilient => Reduce status effect duration by 30% and add 1500 health points.

Blunt the knives(Damage from hunters is reduced by 50%) & Camouflage(Fewer ranged enemies target you) => Combine them + Traps deals 100% more damage to hunters.

Short-Term Investment(Unspent Rune coin will be doubled next round) => Every 100 unspent Rune Coin give you 25 Rune Coin next round. (This effect should last for the rest of the game)

Unexpected Windfall (+20 000 Rune Coin) => Increase starting Rune Coin by 4000.

Philosopher`s Stone (Double all Rune coin value) =­­­> Double all pick-up value.

Hero Threads

Then we have the threads for heroes, like I said earlier the upgrades are too simple and don't allow for many diverse builds or deep synergies. The number of times I chose an upgrade simply because the alternatives were weak/boring is something that bothers me. I'll take Vaan to show some of my ideas:
(Don't look at the numbers, this is just some ideas so nothing is balanced)

Rift Orb

Rift Orb duration is increased by 50% => Rift Orb duration is increased by 30% and every kill inside the rift orb increases its duration by 0.25 seconds.

Rift Orb gains Rift Lightning of 200 damage per second => Rift Orb gains Rift Lightning for 40% of its damage.
"(This thread should enable synergy between Rift Orb and Rift Lightning, so if I increase the range of the Lightning Rift main ability it should also apply the effect on the Lightning Rift inside the Rift Orb, creating unique playstyle)"

Ennemies are slowed by 20% within the effects of Rift Orb => Rift Orb now emits a wave every 2 seconds, this wave slows all enemies by 90% for 0.5s.

Primary Fire

Crossbow maximum ammo is increased by 15 => Crossbow maximum ammo is increased by 15 and every 3 shots increase your attack speed by 1%, reset on reload.

Crossbow reloads 50% faster => Crossbow reloads 50% faster and your first shot after a reload shoots a big piercing bolt that deals 300% increased damage.

All critical hits deal an additional 25% damage => All critical hits deal an additional 25% damage increase this bonus to 50% while inside the Rift Orb or when near the Rift.

Charge Beam

Charge Beam cooldown is reduced by 50% => Traps touched by Charge Beam have their cooldown reduced by 80%, additionally charge beam cooldown is reduced by 35%.

Charge Beam reaches 20% further => Charge Beam can be held/charged before cast to increase its size, range, and damage by 20% for every second up to 5 seconds.

Charged Beam has an additional 20% chance to critically hit => Charged Beam has an additional 20% chance to critically hit and when it does replenish 5 ammo.

Charge Beam lasts an additional 2 seconds. => Charge Beam can pierce through walls and last for an additional 2 seconds.

Rift Lightning

Rift Lightning Cooldown is reduced by 50% => Rift Lightning Cooldown is reduced by 50%, also when you lose a rift point or take damage increases this bonus to 75% for 2 seconds.

Rift Lightning applies Electrified to enemies => Rift Lightning applies Electrified to enemies and bounces 3 times to nearby enemies.

Rift Lightning Range is increased by 50% => Rift Lightning Range is increased by 50% and can target allies to heal them for 300 health per hit.

Rift Protection

Crossbow Ammo does not deplete while Rift Protection is active => Crossbow Ammo does not deplete while Rift Protection is active or when Vaan is near the rift.

Rift Protection duration is increased by 50% => Rift Protection duration is increased by 50% and all War Mages are now invulnerable for the duration of the effect.

New Thread => Using Rift protection cast a Rift Orb in front of Vaan.

Rift Teleport(Trap)

Enemies entering the Rift have a 25% chance to teleport to a Rift Teleport instead => Enemies entering the Rift have a (25% + 5% per Teleport Rift on the field) chance to teleport to a Rift Teleport instead

The placement limit for Rift Teleport is increased by 1 = > The placement limit for Rift Teleport is increased by 1 and when Vaan uses Charge Beam, Rift Teleport will cast a smaller version of Charge Beam dealing 20% damage. (Teleport Rift's Charge beam will automatically target nearby enemies.)
"(This thread should enable synergy between Rift Teleport and Charge Beam, so if I increase the range of the Charge Beam main ability it should also apply the effect on the Charge Beam casted by Teleport Rift)"

New Thread => The placement limit for Rift Teleport is increased by 1 and Rift Teleport can be used as a different type of trap, enemies that step on it are teleported back to their entrance. (30s cooldown)

Cursed Threads

I think cursed threads should be used to specialize in a type of playstyle. Making your build more unique and synergies more interesting.

New Thread => Increase Rift Orb size by 3% every second, but Vaan will start losing health every second after 2s inside the Rift Orb. (Damage increases for every second inside past the 2s)

New Thread => Crossbow maximum ammo is reduced by 50%, but Charge Beam deals 40% more damage and its cooldown is reduced by 35%.

New Thread => Rift Lightning is applied to Vaan instead of the Rift but reduces Vaan's max health by 30%.

New Thread => The placement limit for Rift Teleport is increased by 1 and walking on the Teleport Rift boosts your movement speed by 50% for a short duration. But you are no longer able to teleport.

New Thread => When Rift Protection is cast it constantly pulls all small nearby enemies until the duration ends. But Rift Protection needs 100% more charge to be ready.

Team Synergy Threads

This is a nice idea from the dev and I want to see more of these threads. In case people don't know, some War Mages gain access to unique threads when on the same team. Vaan and Wren already have one thread: Wren's damage is increased by 50% to enemies within Vaan's Rift Orb.

New Thread(Wren Thread) => When Wren uses her Mirror Images, Vaan will get 1 personal mirror image that copies all Vaan's movements and abilities.

New Thread(Vaan Thread) => When Wren uses her Trap Blast inside a Rift Orb she detonates the Rift Orb to deal 5000 damage to all enemies inside the Rift Orb, doing so removes the Rift Orb.

New Thread(Wren Thread) => Rift Teleport(trap) will generate 1 Proximity Orb every 20s up to 3 orb per trap.

Trap Threads

This part is mostly correct but I wish we could have more unique upgrades for all traps.

New Thread (Arrow Wall) => Reduce damage by half but each arrow leaves a poison cloud behind.

New Thread (Brimstone) => Can be placed on the ceiling, doing so causes the trap to constantly drop fire rocks that deal 10% damage and apply burning to all enemies under the trap. (No cooldown)

New Thread (Ceiling Laser) => Change the shape of the trap to 1x0.5, the trap can now be place on walls. the trap has only 2 lasers or 3 with the upgrade.

New Thread (Saw Blade Launcher) => Every third trigger, the next Saw Balde will have +double the size, damage, and lifetime.

New Thread (Acid Geyser) => Every trigger, Acid Geyser has a 5% chance to spawn an acid pool next to it.
(Acid Pool) : Deals continuous damage(Half of the Acid Geyser) and applies Melting to enemies.

New Thread (Briar Patch) => Enemies that die on the Briar Patch create life rose that can be collected to heal allies.

New Thread (Grinder) => Change the shape of the trap to 2x2. Grinder will emit fire sparks that apply burning to enemies. Fire sparks have a +1 range.

New Thread (Poison Gas Emitter) => The trap no longer applies poison but instead creates a nitrogen cloud, deals ice damage, and slows enemies by 40%.

New Thread (Rip Saw) => The trap deals ice damage instead of physical. (Good old OMDU Trap)

New Thread (Shock Zapper) => Change the shape of the trap to 0.5x0.5. Reduce damage by 50%, but increase range by 100%.

More

I also made a post about the character's control, if anyone is interested in sharing their experience with game controls. Here's the link: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2273980/discussions/0/599644118125150795/

[SizroSpunkmire]

I feel like the game is at a fork in the road in terms of direction. One path changes it to be more of a roguelite game and the other changes it to be more of a tower defense game.

Right now it’s trying to be both and isn’t particularly good at being either. The game is overall mostly fun but the amount of annoyance and frustration encountered, many of which you’ve excellently outlined in both your posts, is too much.

[stanley37861]

I did not even think about having the damage type change with Threads. Its not a bad idea. I wondering how much of a mess it would be to program. I was thinking an upgrade system like they had in OMDU where you could set your damage type with a mod you would have to grind for, 2 birds one stone. I would be ok with threads changing the damage type also. I hope at some point I will be able to do a full ice trap build.

[SizroSpunkmire]

Publicado originalmente por stanley37861:

I did not even think about having the damage type change with Threads. Its not a bad idea. I wondering how much of a mess it would be to program. I was thinking an upgrade system like they had in OMDU where you could set your damage type with a mod you would have to grind for, 2 birds one stone. I would be ok with threads changing the damage type also. I hope at some point I will be able to do a full ice trap build.

They had this in OMD3 and it was incredibly fun. A number of traps had two final upgrades, but you could only pick one. In a number of cases, it changed the damage type to something else. The Ceiling Laser could apply fire instead of lightning, Brimstone could change from fire to arcane etc.

[Cauldraborn]

Publicado originalmente por SizroSpunkmire:

Publicado originalmente por stanley37861:

I did not even think about having the damage type change with Threads. Its not a bad idea. I wondering how much of a mess it would be to program. I was thinking an upgrade system like they had in OMDU where you could set your damage type with a mod you would have to grind for, 2 birds one stone. I would be ok with threads changing the damage type also. I hope at some point I will be able to do a full ice trap build.

They had this in OMD3 and it was incredibly fun. A number of traps had two final upgrades, but you could only pick one. In a number of cases, it changed the damage type to something else. The Ceiling Laser could apply fire instead of lightning, Brimstone could change from fire to arcane etc.

Spike trap was a favourite in OMD3 due to the 2 unique upgrades allowing you to switch between arcane or lightning. Mostly used lightning but if enemies got lightning immunity I'd then switch it to arcane.

[stanley37861]

Publicado originalmente por SizroSpunkmire:

Publicado originalmente por stanley37861:

I did not even think about having the damage type change with Threads. Its not a bad idea. I wondering how much of a mess it would be to program. I was thinking an upgrade system like they had in OMDU where you could set your damage type with a mod you would have to grind for, 2 birds one stone. I would be ok with threads changing the damage type also. I hope at some point I will be able to do a full ice trap build.

They had this in OMD3 and it was incredibly fun. A number of traps had two final upgrades, but you could only pick one. In a number of cases, it changed the damage type to something else. The Ceiling Laser could apply fire instead of lightning, Brimstone could change from fire to arcane etc.

Yes I always changed my brimstone to arcane. that system is the same as it was in OMD 1, 2, and 3. OMDU you had a item you had to grind for that could be placed in the trap and change it to another damage type. Like a ice upgrade could be placed in most of the traps to change the damage to ice. The old OMD system you only had 2 choices and they are often not to change the damage type. The system in OMDD is......a watered down version of an upgrade system. The reason I think hunting for items is a good idea is after a week of game play you have all the upgrades all the skins and so on. There really isnt any goal to work for. you are even capped out on skulls at 99,999. So you can not even grind for that. So I would not mind having to grind for trap upgrades. It would atleast be a goal to work for.