Reaction to 1.0 changes is completely overblown

[Choowkee]

tl;dr its not 'worse' it simply 'different'

Did a run with Jin to Susanoo and the game mostly plays the same. I actually spotted some new cool upgrades I havent seen before in EA.

People are seriously overacting with the 1.0 changes. Yes they did rework a ton which they probably didnt have to do but overall the game is still fun.

Positive: For example I really like the new potential upgrade tiers. You can now choose which potential you want to specialize in. Max MP and Max HP upgrades during runs is also really cool as it allows you to build some really fun spammy skill builds. Having *actual* choices for stages matter is also nice as you have more control over what tactics you want to focus on e.g. with Jin you can just go all in on Ice very easily now.

Neutral: Jin seems nerfed with his basic attacks being slower, however, in reality he was overtuned in early access and easily the #1 character in the game. He still plays very good.

Negative: What I dont like is the font/UI changes. Some of them are completely unnecessary and look worse than EA - weird decision. Some UI navigation is also worse, I really dont like the potential selection popup, its very annoying to cycle through potentials and you can very easily missclick a choice now. The english translation is very wonky with some descriptions being weirdly worded and it seems worse than in EA

Also no new endgame is disappointing. At least I havent seen anything new about it. I really wished we would get more stages. Hopefully they will add more after 1.0

So yeah approach 1.0 with an open mind, game is still fantastic.

[Neocronic]

Toxi The Vagrant eredeti hozzászólása:

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

Kokonoe has been busted from the start. She can stack DoT like crazy. Just apply one of each from lightining, fire and venom on her attack, skill and dash and you're good. Big space laser potential so you don't need to stand still while firing rockets. The only more busted character is Es because eventually EVERYTHING she does except walking creates Crests. Unlock them blooming twice and voila. That still leaves Noel, Mai, Hibiki and Taokaka behind. Either way... playing normal mode is a chore but its completion is locked off by a difficulty spike Susanoo. Not worth getting back into the game unless either Makoto or Bullet get added. Those are the characters I like the most from the mainline games (which I arguably would be enjoying more if the crowd wasn't limited to the 12+ year veterans).

I'm actually having a pretty okay time with taokaka, her main combo isn't as fast as water gun (and definitely not as fast as ice gun) but if you take advantage of her hybrid melee/projectile moves, she can actually do more burst than Kokonoe, she also has the ability to maintain aggression pretty easily thanks to factors like her alt dash.

her ranged attack + more attacks when you hold Attack + clones from her ability thats repeat any action + kamikaze cats she can spam from literally normal attack. Bosses just melts in seconds and you can spam from far distance without getting hit.

[The nameless Gamer]

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

Kokonoe has been busted from the start. She can stack DoT like crazy. Just apply one of each from lightining, fire and venom on her attack, skill and dash and you're good. Big space laser potential so you don't need to stand still while firing rockets. The only more busted character is Es because eventually EVERYTHING she does except walking creates Crests. Unlock them blooming twice and voila. That still leaves Noel, Mai, Hibiki and Taokaka behind. Either way... playing normal mode is a chore but its completion is locked off by a difficulty spike Susanoo. Not worth getting back into the game unless either Makoto or Bullet get added. Those are the characters I like the most from the mainline games (which I arguably would be enjoying more if the crowd wasn't limited to the 12+ year veterans).

I think you don't know, but susanoo not lock anything, entropy unlock literally after first run, no matter lose or win. And there no hard difficulty anymore. After you finished game all you can do just increase your entropy like in Hades.

So 91Act are trying to make a Blazblue-themed side-scrolling bootleg Hades. I dropped Hades specifically because its boss fights are horribly tedious due to its bosses being damage sponges with too few openings to actually deal damage. Thanks, you saved me a whole lot of time and trouble.

[Neocronic]

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

I think you don't know, but susanoo not lock anything, entropy unlock literally after first run, no matter lose or win. And there no hard difficulty anymore. After you finished game all you can do just increase your entropy like in Hades.

So 91Act are trying to make a Blazblue-themed side-scrolling bootleg Hades. I dropped Hades specifically because its boss fights are horribly tedious due to its bosses being damage sponges with too few openings to actually deal damage. Thanks, you saved me a whole lot of time and trouble.

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

[Epsilon Rose]

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

So 91Act are trying to make a Blazblue-themed side-scrolling bootleg Hades. I dropped Hades specifically because its boss fights are horribly tedious due to its bosses being damage sponges with too few openings to actually deal damage. Thanks, you saved me a whole lot of time and trouble.

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

So 91Act are trying to make a Blazblue-themed side-scrolling bootleg Hades. I dropped Hades specifically because its boss fights are horribly tedious due to its bosses being damage sponges with too few openings to actually deal damage. Thanks, you saved me a whole lot of time and trouble.

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

It seems a bit of a stretch to say using a two system that are similar to a pair of systems from Hades makes this a Hades clone, given how many other things are different and how differently both of those systems are implemented.

[The nameless Gamer]

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

It seems a bit of a stretch to say using a two system that are similar to a pair of systems from Hades makes this a Hades clone, given how many other things are different and how differently both of those systems are implemented.

Well, it's not ONE system.
Tactics = boons
Potentials = Hammers
HP increase = Centaur's Heart
Black Market = Chaos Cauldron.

[Epsilon Rose]

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

It seems a bit of a stretch to say using a two system that are similar to a pair of systems from Hades makes this a Hades clone, given how many other things are different and how differently both of those systems are implemented.

Well, it's not ONE system.
Tactics = boons
Potentials = Hammers
HP increase = Centaur's Heart
Black Market = Chaos Cauldron.

I stand by saying it's two systems—I never said it was only one—but most of those comparisons seem very off base.

The tactics are similar to boons, yes, but their implementation and the way they relate to each other is very different. Boons, past the first, for instance, don't fit into specific slots and are more generally applicable across the entire deity, while tactics are grouped into families of distinct trees and with more fixed synergies.

Potentials are nothing like hammers, which are extremely limited and only change up the core functionality of your chosen weapon in a small number of ways. Potentials, conversely, are a much more expansive system that focuses on adding new moves, with multiple layers of upgrades and interrelated synergies.

HP Increases = Centaur's Hearts in that they're both HP Upgrades: One of the most basic and ubiquitous types of upgrades across all games with HP. At this point, you might as well say Entropy Effect is copying Hades' use of WASD as a movement option.

Finally, while I haven't seen how black markets are implemented in 1.0, their EA implementation had little resemblance to Chaos Gates—I'm going to assume you mean Chaos Gates, because Chaos Cauldrons aren't a thing—If anything, they more closely resemble black markets from Binding of Isaac, but "shop where you can exchange health for benefits" is not exactly a new or unique concept.

[Omniwhatever]

I think the early game of this is definitely rougher than EA, but once you get to the later parts with a chunk of out of run upgrades I definitely prefer the new system because of some of the off the wall stuff you can do and customize your difficulty. At least with some of the characters I played it felt like you could largely just ignore the entropy system entirely even on hard mode at 300 once you got enough meta upgrades, which I feel much less with the higher entropy options in 1.0. Given the worse start though, I can understand why there's been some mixed reception to the 1.0 release because first impressions are really important, especially when you've had time to get used to a system. And perhaps something could be done to smooth out that curve a little. I do think people may find some more enjoyment out of the new system if they give it some time though.

Heck, I decided to do a potentials only run with Ragna and ended it with 23 potentials and a moveset that was vastly more extensive than with EA. Sure, definitely had some luck, but I could still do it where taking things that far simply wasn't possible before. And because of things like being able to stack +MP I could actually use those moves a lot more for some silly strings than with EA. Actually felt a good bit more powerful pumping up my raw stats like that than I did with most 'normal' runs. That was with 50/100 Entropy too so far from being just a gimmick for lower difficulty.

[Epsilon Rose]

Omniwhatever eredeti hozzászólása:

Heck, I decided to do a potentials only run with Ragna and ended it with 23 potentials and a moveset that was vastly more extensive than with EA. Sure, definitely had some luck, but I could still do it where taking things that far simply wasn't possible before. And because of things like being able to stack +MP I could actually use those moves a lot more for some silly strings than with EA. Actually felt a good bit more powerful pumping up my raw stats like that than I did with most 'normal' runs. That was with 50/100 Entropy too so far from being just a gimmick for lower difficulty.

Wait, how do you do a potential only run? How do you get anywhere near that many potentials?

[Neocronic]

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

It is. Also i make review and explained why game literally 2d clone of Hades. Unfortunately for you it at my main language and i too lazy to make English version. But you right about Hades.

It seems a bit of a stretch to say using a two system that are similar to a pair of systems from Hades makes this a Hades clone, given how many other things are different and how differently both of those systems are implemented.

story in both games, weapons from hades - classes in blazblue, hammers - potential, boons - elements, keepsakes - mind upgrades, works literally same, have 3 lvls each, pacts - entropy system. Continue?)

[Neocronic]

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

Omniwhatever eredeti hozzászólása:

Heck, I decided to do a potentials only run with Ragna and ended it with 23 potentials and a moveset that was vastly more extensive than with EA. Sure, definitely had some luck, but I could still do it where taking things that far simply wasn't possible before. And because of things like being able to stack +MP I could actually use those moves a lot more for some silly strings than with EA. Actually felt a good bit more powerful pumping up my raw stats like that than I did with most 'normal' runs. That was with 50/100 Entropy too so far from being just a gimmick for lower difficulty.

Wait, how do you do a potential only run? How do you get anywhere near that many potentials?

selled in shop pretty often, event reward, just common drop from random rooms and guaranteed from any bosses, even in space omega. Space omega shop allow to buy potential multiple times. 2 additional potential rooms at last lvl of entropy.

[Epsilon Rose]

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

It seems a bit of a stretch to say using a two system that are similar to a pair of systems from Hades makes this a Hades clone, given how many other things are different and how differently both of those systems are implemented.

story in both games, weapons from hades - classes in blazblue, hammers - potential, boons - elements, keepsakes - mind upgrades, works literally same, have 3 lvls each, pacts - entropy system. Continue?)

You cannot point to both games having a story and use that to say "they copied from Hades." MOST games have stories and both the structure of their narratives and the way they're conveyed are different.

Classes are not a close analog to weapons beyond being "a thing you select at the start of the run that shapes your run," which is, again, an incredibly common element. Beyond that, all of the specifics of their implementation are wildly different.

I've already gone over why hammers and potentials are not the same thing.

Boons and elements are the closest you have to a point, but again, their implementation is extremely different.

Keepsakes and Mind Ugrades aren't at all similar.

Pact of Punisment and the Entropy system are the other pair of similar systems, but their implementation is still very different.

Continue? You need to actually start. Your comparisons are uncritical and almost entirely wrong.

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

Wait, how do you do a potential only run? How do you get anywhere near that many potentials?

selled in shop pretty often, event reward, just common drop from random rooms and guaranteed from any bosses, even in space omega. Space omega shop allow to buy potential multiple times. 2 additional potential rooms at last lvl of entropy.

Neocronic eredeti hozzászólása:

Epsilon Rose eredeti hozzászólása:

Wait, how do you do a potential only run? How do you get anywhere near that many potentials?

selled in shop pretty often, event reward, just common drop from random rooms and guaranteed from any bosses, even in space omega. Space omega shop allow to buy potential multiple times. 2 additional potential rooms at last lvl of entropy.

What? Potentials aren't "random drops form random rooms," They're room rewards you have to select going in and you don't get nearly enough of them to string together a "potential only" run.

[The nameless Gamer]

If people are enjoying fighting a final boss with 2.5 million HP, that's fair enough. With the pretty big nerf on the player character damage, not my cuppa. HP mixtures or not, that fight takes way too long. Not only does he have over 1.200.000 HP per phase, the openings to deal damage are small and the damage is not high enough.

[Gias]

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

If people are enjoying fighting a final boss with 2.5 million HP, that's fair enough. With the pretty big nerf on the player character damage, not my cuppa. HP mixtures or not, that fight takes way too long. Not only does he have over 1.200.000 HP per phase, the openings to deal damage are small and the damage is not high enough.

Susanoo on hard was a 2min fight playing Es for me. I feel dps problem is mostly a matter of character & perk choice. Had constant dps just placing Es ring on him boosted further with bladestorm perk. That aside cold icycles seem strongest passive dps choice by far. Just started with 1.0 so dont have any mind device perks maxed which means you can certainly be faster than me.

The fight did annoy me however for another reason: Whenever Susanoo goes into a corner the UI obstructs vision on what he is doing. Ground needs to be higher so the fight is above UI level and they already did this correct with similiar bosses like nan-fire bite so they clearly undetstood the problem before and did the right thing but failed to do so with Susanoo.

[The nameless Gamer]

Gias eredeti hozzászólása:

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

If people are enjoying fighting a final boss with 2.5 million HP, that's fair enough. With the pretty big nerf on the player character damage, not my cuppa. HP mixtures or not, that fight takes way too long. Not only does he have over 1.200.000 HP per phase, the openings to deal damage are small and the damage is not high enough.

Susanoo on hard was a 2min fight playing Es for me. I feel dps problem is mostly a matter of character & perk choice. Had constant dps just placing Es ring on him boosted further with bladestorm perk. That aside cold icycles seem strongest passive dps choice by far. Just started with 1.0 so dont have any mind device perks maxed which means you can certainly be faster than me.

The fight did annoy me however for another reason: Whenever Susanoo goes into a corner the UI obstructs vision on what he is doing. Ground needs to be higher so the fight is above UI level and they already did this correct with similiar bosses like nan-fire bite so they clearly undetstood the problem before and did the right thing but failed to do so with Susanoo.

That's Es, the character which spawns crests by doing everything except walking. Es is by far the most broken character in this game. I didn't play her more than twice on Hard in early access because I finished both runs with 4 HP mixtures remaining (I had to spend two on Arakune, none on Oread, Nan-Fire bite and Susanoo). A roguelite game is not about clearing it once but about a gameplay LOOP. And there isn't much fun to be had if only one character is so much better than the rest.

[Toxi The Vagrant]

The nameless Commander eredeti hozzászólása:

Gias eredeti hozzászólása:

Susanoo on hard was a 2min fight playing Es for me. I feel dps problem is mostly a matter of character & perk choice. Had constant dps just placing Es ring on him boosted further with bladestorm perk. That aside cold icycles seem strongest passive dps choice by far. Just started with 1.0 so dont have any mind device perks maxed which means you can certainly be faster than me.

The fight did annoy me however for another reason: Whenever Susanoo goes into a corner the UI obstructs vision on what he is doing. Ground needs to be higher so the fight is above UI level and they already did this correct with similiar bosses like nan-fire bite so they clearly undetstood the problem before and did the right thing but failed to do so with Susanoo.

That's Es, the character which spawns crests by doing everything except walking. Es is by far the most broken character in this game. I didn't play her more than twice on Hard in early access because I finished both runs with 4 HP mixtures remaining (I had to spend two on Arakune, none on Oread, Nan-Fire bite and Susanoo). A roguelite game is not about clearing it once but about a gameplay LOOP. And there isn't much fun to be had if only one character is so much better than the rest.

I beat Susano'o in a minute with Noel, a minute 15 with Taokaka, and 45 seconds with Lambda, EVERYONE is busted in their own way, it's not an Es exclusive attribute to be able to shake heaven and earth with a good potential setup.