Disappointed with the new model.

[gustavrsh]

I didn't buy YNAB for you to change it to a subscription based service. You could at least make a offline version of YNAB 5 for YNAB 4 users, or a final update for it. Hugely disappointed.

[Drake]

Publicado originalmente por Ravenlock:

Yup. We went over all of that in the preceding pages during the last - again - two years of their successful cloud-based operation. But yes, of course they already had an "easy way to deliver updates", I never said they didn't, they just chose to handle their upgrade model via yearly major versions, which they charged for. Now they don't do that anymore, and do this instead. The point was just that it was never free to stay up to date, so that was an ignorant complaint for people to make, back when they switched models.

Obviously, if you don't want your data in the cloud, the existing Steam version is what you should use. Or there are other options. I'm perfectly aware of and happy with the tradeoff I'm making to have my data up to date on any computer or device I choose to log into, and presumably so are the other customers who have been using this new model for the last two years oh god how are we still talking about this after two years please let this thread die.

Oh Please .... in the past 7 tears

Wells Fargo was hacked
Target was hacked
Citi was hacked
Chase was hacked
+ dozens of large financial institutions and centralized transaction processing companies for POS processing

Facebook, massive invasion of privacy that had come to light, in violation of their own TOS agreement
Twitter, massive invasion of privacy
Google maps, keeps your location logged, even when you turn off the option. It simply stops keeping your history locally, but logs it on their servers.

And you claim our data is secure. Never, ever, should anyone with an ounce of brain matter, and desire for privacy, pay for the "privilege" of keeping all their financial data in the cloud, or on anyone's servers other than our own PC, but in addition keeping all the data in one place.

[Ravenlock]

Cooooooool. That definitely sounds very different than the last 3 times you made those points.

[Ravenlock]

I do appreciate, however, that over two years of still not being right, you continue to assume that there's no possibility that you could be wrong. Not in your position that they might be hacked (which nobody is arguing with you about), but in your position that everybody who doesn't agree with your security standards is an idiot.

OF COURSE THEY AREN'T UN-HACKABLE. I have never said that they were, and in fact I have repeatedly pointed OUT that I never said that they were. What I've *said* is that they are as secure as any other place people store financial data online - because that is true. If you use online banking - if you use Mint - if you use Betterment or Acorns or any online investing service - if you use anything backed by Finicity - the same tech is protecting you here. The same risks apply. I'm perfectly okay with those risks. Yes, it is true that they consolidate multiple sets of data in one potential point of failure (though that point of failure does not expose entry into those other data sources, so it's still just raw numbers - just more of them). I'm okay with that, too, for the added convenience of one consolidated place to handle my numbers.

I also use Google Maps, Twitter and Facebook, just like hundreds of millions of other people, knowing that it is possible that my data may be obtained by someone, and life will continue.

What don't you get about this? Do you enjoy going around this bush again, and again, and again, and again?

[Drake]

Publicado originalmente por Ravenlock:

I do appreciate, however, that over two years of still not being right, you continue to assume that there's no possibility that you could be wrong. Not in your position that they might be hacked (which nobody is arguing with you about), but in your position that everybody who doesn't agree with your security standards is an idiot.

OF COURSE THEY AREN'T UN-HACKABLE. I have never said that they were, and in fact I have repeatedly pointed OUT that I never said that they were. What I've *said* is that they are as secure as any other place people store financial data online - because that is true. If you use online banking - if you use Mint - if you use Betterment or Acorns or any online investing service - if you use anything backed by Finicity - the same tech is protecting you here. The same risks apply. I'm perfectly okay with those risks. Yes, it is true that they consolidate multiple sets of data in one potential point of failure (though that point of failure does not expose entry into those other data sources, so it's still just raw numbers - just more of them). I'm okay with that, too, for the added convenience of one consolidated place to handle my numbers.

I also use Google Maps, Twitter and Facebook, just like hundreds of millions of other people, knowing that it is possible that my data may be obtained by someone, and life will continue.

What don't you get about this? Do you enjoy going around this bush again, and again, and again, and again?

The difference is, hacking one institution, compromises your data for just one account. Hacking YNAB, gives the criminals access to ALL your accounts.

We all know the scam, if you read through the nine pages, you'll notice that you're literally in the single digits, pushing the monthly subscription and cloud storage scam under the guise of "...their security is just like all other security.... hackable...but it's alright, because all others are just as secure"

Literally pathetic, and laughable that you are so blind, or rather obtuse, as to see that vast majority take you for a sham, who continues putting on a positive spin on YNAB on line model, their storage of all the financial data on a cloud, and asking customers to pay a monthly subsription for that "service".

People by enlarge, aren't morons, as you and those whom you support seem to think.

[Ravenlock]

I'm not pushing it. In nearly every single post I'm saying "don't like it? Okay, don't use it!" Hell, I've even thanked you for providing people alternatives. What I am saying is (1) I still use it, (2) I still like it, (3) they're still a successful company with many happy customers after two years of using this model. That's it. That's the whole list.

You don't look like a smart badass for slinging around insults and acting like you're a security guru for being aware of high profile hacks. We went over all the actual tech they're using and why even a successful hack wouldn't expose "ALL your accounts" in any meaningful way, but you didn't care, because you aren't invested enough to actually learn what you're talking about, just to poke in here every few months and call them idiots.

Well, they're running a successful business, and you're ranting on a Steam forum, so. Everybody can do the math.

Publicado originalmente por Drake:

People by enlarge, aren't morons, as you and those whom you support seem to think.

Also, unrelated but FYI, it's "by and large." "By enlarge" isn't a thing.

[Merc.-Sonic]

Honestly if you want the newer version thats fine.. but why would you stop giving the option for the offline version? can any of you that praise the online version say that your data is truely secure? If yahoo, google, Facebook can get hacked whos to say they won't get hacked? and when they get hacked wouldn't your credit card on file also be comprimised?

To be honest I'd rather buy knowing I saved for it .. I can save the money perfectly fine on my end with the offline version and I have the self control to the point where I don't have someone in my pockets to Prepay for the next version.. so why stop selling an offline version? It's easier to give the impression that your investing and maybe it's good but why can't some of the features be off line or at least have an offline version still on sale.. I mean they took it off of steam because steam had hands in their pockets probably..

[Ravenlock]

Publicado originalmente por Merc.-Sonic:

why stop selling an offline version? It's easier to give the impression that your investing and maybe it's good but why can't some of the features be off line or at least have an offline version still on sale.. I mean they took it off of steam because steam had hands in their pockets probably..

If you actually want an answer to this, they wrote one when they made the switch to this model.

https://www.youneedabudget.com/the-new-ynab-business-model/

I'm not going over the hacking thing again. There's nine pages here. We covered it twice. But here's the link to their security page where they discuss their practices at length.

https://www.youneedabudget.com/security/

No, your data is never 100% fully secure online. Anyone who tells you that it is, is lying. Your data can, however, be anonymized and encrypted to the point where stealing it would tell someone very little about you, and stopgaps can be put in place to make sure that a data breach doesn't compromise other systems; whether that makes you feel better or not is up to you. If not, don't use it. Don't do what you're not comfortable with. This is the answer that the YNAB team would also give, as would almost anybody who hosts web based software in an honest way.

[reverendphil]

Man, I've been thinking of upgrading to the online model mainly to integrate with my accounts, because I can put off logging in spending waaaay too long, and it takes me an hour or two to line everything up in a month, which is worth five bucks. I didn't expect that there'd be an active discussion in here, nor did I expect to find this piece of solid gold.

Publicado originalmente por Drake:

People by enlarge, aren't morons, as you and those whom you support seem to think.

[Ravenlock]

Right? It's the gift that keeps on giving, once or twice a year like clockwork.

[Drake]

Publicado originalmente por reverendphil:

Man, I've been thinking of upgrading to the online model mainly to integrate with my accounts, because I can put off logging in spending waaaay too long, and it takes me an hour or two to line everything up in a month, which is worth five bucks. I didn't expect that there'd be an active discussion in here, nor did I expect to find this piece of solid gold.

Publicado originalmente por Drake:

People by enlarge, aren't morons, as you and those whom you support seem to think.

Yep, someone will have great fun using your accounts, all of them...

[[TE] Kuraudo]

Publicado originalmente por easytarget:

Using YNAB 5 is like a financial IQ test, if you sign up you failed.

Underrated.

[NicSage]

Publicado originalmente por easytarget:

YNAB is dead to me as a subscription, no one actually budgeting their money properly would ever willingly subscribe to any recurring fee based software.

Using YNAB 5 is like a financial IQ test, if you sign up you failed.

This made me laugh so hard because it's true.

[DasaKamov]

Publicado originalmente por Nicsage:

Publicado originalmente por easytarget:

no one actually budgeting their money properly would ever willingly subscribe to any recurring fee based software.

This made me laugh so hard because it's true.

I know this thread is just people arguing in circles but I'm going to use necro-powers to point out that the above argument is so, absolutely, positively NOT true.

Intuit's Quickbooks -- you know, the single largest accounting software program in the world -- has been utilizing a cloud-based system for over 7 years, and their userbase is 3x as large as the next-largest company (Xero).

[Ravenlock]

Shhhhhhhh. Shhhhh. Don't wake Drake. He's a security expert, ya know.

[Duck Whitman]

wait what