Clickteam Fusion 2.5 VS Construct 2

[darksouls]

I own the first one but I just discovered this product and was wondering what are your pros and cons for this one besides the fact you cant export to native windows with simple .exes.

Clickteam Fusion 2.5 has a ton of plugins that support things like lua (unsure how outdated they are, but they are there) and parsing to XMLs(unsure how to use it though, but its there). There are a few useful extensions, but mostly reading the event editor is like decyphering some kinda hyroglyph and for some reason they didnt invest more development time into the event list editor which should be their primary focus as its the easiest thing to read.

However, Construct 2, from what I've seen by the various youtube videos is pretty legible even from just not knowing anything about it atleast to my eyes.

However, I understand that there might be some hardcoded limitations which I would be interested in hearing.

As I understand it Game maker studio runs the fastest, but Im not sure what does what performance wise when it Clickteam VS Construct 2 is compared. I cant seem to find many comparison videos. From what I read Construct 2 is newer? So has it been worth it for you? Does anyone here own both and can tell me the differences?

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

I have the three software.
Clickteam Fusion 2.5 (the Standard paid version) (and older called Multimedia Fusion 2)

Scirra Construct 2 FREE.

Game Maker PRO.

1) Clickteam Fusion 2.5 is ...
- AMAZINGLY powerful, you do what YOU WANT, even just software instead games (I designed a Patch Downloader within!).
- Ok, the Event Interface seems "outdated" instead of that of Construct 2 but, it's just an impression.
- The interface is extremely productive. (Also you can switch in mode EVENTS LISTS instead QUICK EDIT LIST).
- Plugins are way so useful (like the plugin called "Surface". It's just a true plugin!).
- You can even code (with free plugin) lines in: .net (C# and VB.NET), Python, LUA, sqlLite, XML, Basic (and more..),
- This support behaviors too and shaders effects.
- ALSO.. Groups, Project tree folder, objects instances, variables (THEREFORE variables is limited to less of 30 per object)..
- Frame control, Mouse control
- And MORE MORE MORE... like Physics with Box2D is a bit of the content of Clickteam Fusion 2.5.
- Events Groups (which it is possible to enable/disable at runtime) is great !
- ONE MORE WORDS is: Collision with pixel perfect detection! Very useful!
-- The more badiest things for me it's that Exporter aren't free (meaning exporting to Android/HTML5 or any other platforms is not a thing possible unless you buy the DLC exporter corresponding to where you want export).


2) Scirra Construct 2 FREE (because I only tested FREE version but I want buy the Personal a day! (perhaps this christmas) is ...
- STUNNING, like Clickteam Fusion 2.5
- It has some of the same content as Clickteam Fusion 2.5 BUT some are very limited (like the Mouse Object do not have the possibility to set X or Y position.)
- Collision aren't pixel perfect... It's just circle, bounding box or polygonal (plus you'll need to define yourself manually the form of collision if you choose anything else than Bounding Box..).. SADDLY..
- but, in 1h I was able to make this:

- Pachinko game
-- Bucket moving from left to right and right to left (BEHAVIOR: SINE)
-- Ball hitting dots with physic real movement (BEHAVIOR: PHYSIC)
-- Points
-- Lives (left balls)

So.. Scirra Construct 2 is very good. I just wonder if (since it's not pixel perfect collision) how we can achieve this kind of game:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/258890

I think it is impossible without many many workaround.
Instead of that, in Clickteam Fusion 2.5, it can be achieved really fast with the use of Blitting function of Surface plugin + Clickteam Fusion 2.5 native box2D pixel perfect collision).

- THE BEST THINGS for my viewpoint is: EXPORTERS ARE FREE !


3) Game Maker PRO (or not) is ...
- A true headache, I don't regret to purchased it BUT it is really a different approach.
- The DnD interface of Game Maker.. is just awfully incomplete ! You'll need often write lines and lines of GML code..(http://docs.yoyogames.com/source/dadiospice/002_reference/001_gml%20language%20overview/index.html) for have a better control on your game.
- The views system is near from hard to use, I tried to make a board game with them, but it's just very hard to achieve what I want do in it..
- In it I just designed a poor "catch the clown" clone :o.. And seriously, It was boring as hell.
- It's certainly not a software that you can use correctly in few hours instead of Clickteam Fusion 2.5 or Scirra Construct 2.
- Plugin system is very recent, so it's not well integrated in Steam Workshop for the moment.. but they works very well in Game Maker itself when exporting to anything else of Steam Workshop.
- Exporters (like Clickteam Fusion 2.5) aren't not FREE but are more expensive than this last !
- The GML is indeed powerful and offer a true control over each aspect of your game, but seriously, if you would want get a software for code games, just code in C++ or even with XNA or any other framework over the net like Platypus Game Engine, or simple PHP+HTML+JS+MySQL.. so ... It's not really a great "quick approach" for making games in quick steps (and it is not easy too)
- The software is powerful, indeed it is, but lacks furiously of features in DnD mode.


So, my TOP 3 is like this:

°1° : Clickteam Fusion 2.5 because : IT IS THE BEST (from all I tested as features!)
°2° : Scirra Construct 2 (personal edition would be more useful than free since free is limited to 100 events, 2 effects, 1 layer etc..) because : IT IS A SOLID SOFTWARE, I LOVE IT, I WANT LEARN MORE OF IT.
°3° : nothing.

Why I don't included Game Maker in this list?
Because Game Maker is WAY MORE complicated to use and then for it take a place into other section than "Quick Conditions->Actions" game design system.


EDIT: fixing some typo errors and adding some informations.

[darksouls]

Yeah I think I agree with all of this. Thanks alot man.

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

You're welcome :)

[Geldon]

Great post, Aтαηα¢ιυѕ.

Anyway, I've been looking at them both for awhile not, brooding quite a bit over which to get (I already own them all except for Construct 2 but am always looking for more) and I'll say that the main difference is this:

* Construct 2 is a bit easier to use because you have more flexibility in function arguments and there are more pre-coded behaviors and such, meaning you can do more with it and not have to come up with work-arounds or code extensions for your game concepts as often. For example, of the three engines here, Construct 2 is the only one with weighted pathfinding or tilemaps capable of interaction. Compared to everything else I have used, Construct 2 is a joy to work in, the ease in which it allows you to bring a simple concept together cannot be beat.

* Multimedia Fusion 2.5, in converse to the above, is comparatively more awkward to get the same things done in it (but still a heck of a lot easier than coding aything from scratch). However it does have a massive advantage in that (unlike Construct 2) it exports to relatively native code, meaning the games you put out on Fusion 2.5 will have MUCH better performance. I built a rudimentary benchmark that simply spams projectiles and found that, on the Windows platform, Multimedia fusion can handle about 5X more active projectiles than Construct 2, and 1.5X more than GameMaker before hitting 50 FPS. However, it's important to note one exception: Construct 2 is great at HTML5 performance, as it builds native javascript apps, and beats the pants off of the other two on that platform. It is important to note you are limited to 20,000 active objects per scene in Multimedia Fusion 2.5, and this can cause real problems if you're trying to simulate a tilemap.

* GameMaker is more flexible than the above, but it sure makes you work for it. The room maker is a real pain in the butt to work with, having been developed with non-standard GUI that makes it easier to make mistakes than progress. The events are all hidden behind the drag-and-drop interface, which is a problem because there is very little in the way of pre-coded behaviors, so you will need to get into those events constantly in order to recode your own behaviors in GM (sort of like C code). Because you will be coding everything, GameMaker could be said to have more flexibility, you will not be as limited to the behaviors already in the engine. Yet, despite their "no coding" advertising, both Construct 2 and Multimedia 2.5, they are not without coding capability, and if you go as far as to coding your own extensions you are perhaps even less limited than you would be in GameMaker, but in Construct 2 those extensions will be in javascript and have the same javascript virtual machine limitations.

So basically the entire crux could be summed up in one sentence: Construct 2 is the easiest to use and can do more by default, but its native javascript dependency means it will do it with more limitations (mostly power) on all platforms except for HTML5 (which already has those limitations anyway). This can cause a problem if you plan on making an ambitious project or otherwise need to have a lot of power to run your concept.

I recommend going over to indiedb and looking down the game list for each engine, as it will give you a good idea about which each are capable of. You will see firsthand what that power limitation means to Construct 2, how Multimedia Fusion puts out lots of fast platformers but not so much flexible concepts, and how procedural generation tends to lean GameMaker due to the accessibility of the code everywhere.

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

Excellent additional informations Geldon !

You are all right on Construct 2 Behaviors, they are all extensible both by US or by the downloadble content from the Construct 2 communauty.

But, may I add after playing around some limitations to HTML5 (mainly related to LOADING SIMPLE XML FILES), I tend to say that Construct 2 is not easily able to make dynamic moddable games.
It is possible yes, but not so easy instead Clickteam Fusion 2.5 (or formerly old Multimedia Fusion 2) and Game Maker PRO (or not).

Why then?

Because it is a HTML5 limitation due to security not the fault to Construct 2 or its objects.
But this can be very tedious when we want load external files into the SAME project directory..

It is just impossible to do in HTML 5 preview (unless they must be added to Project as Included Files, but taking this way, this make your game not able to be very extensible from the scratch..)

After a while of headache (yes.. Headache :/), I learn that Construct 2 rely to an another system for playing games into another location than a browser or a mobile platform, and then be able to load local external files (or distant)..

It is called as Node-Webkit.

But... I must say.. that is pretty hard to say it is a working perfect workaround.

Why?

Because that unwanted behavior will occur:

On Node-Webkit preview mode:

• If your external file is accessed ONLINE (meaning through a website), then it work, it load the file.
  
• If your external file is accessed LOCALLY (meaning through a local application/project folder), then it won't load the file and giving a 404 HTTP ERROR instead.

On Node-Webkit exported project (only available in at least a Personal purchased Construct 2 Version):

• If your external file is accessed ONLINE (meaning through a website), then it work, it load the file.
  
• If your external file is accessed LOCALLY (meaning through a local application/project folder), then it work, it load the file.

Also, this has been confirmed here:

https://www.scirra.com/forum/loading-an-external-xml-file-through-ajax-plugin_t121638


So.. I'm affraid to say this: Construct 2 is indeed powerful but indeed lacks of feature for loading easily external files (and remove the easy-way of creating a moddable game..).

Sadly.

Anyway, I maintain that Construct 2 is a powerful software for making games and I want buy it one day.

Cheers :)

[Geldon]

I actually had no idea the node webkit could load files, so that's interesting news to me - Construct 2 is more capable than I thought!

That said, I'm sort of surprised to hear that moddability is a factor in any of these game kits. That's really something I would associate more with coding your own engine than expecting to find in GameMaker, Construct 2, or Clickteam Fusion 2.5. Can you give me an example of a game made in Clickteam Fusion 2.5 that is moddable?

[darksouls]

Цитата допису Geldon:

I actually had no idea the node webkit could load files, so that's interesting news to me - Construct 2 is more capable than I thought!

That said, I'm sort of surprised to hear that moddability is a factor in any of these game kits. That's really something I would associate more with coding your own engine than expecting to find in GameMaker, Construct 2, or Clickteam Fusion 2.5. Can you give me an example of a game made in Clickteam Fusion 2.5 that is moddable?

Hey, even clickteam fusion 2.5 dev version has this 20,000 object limit? What gives?

Is this per frame? What are the best ways to get around this?

I had no idea this was true.

[Geldon]

Цитата допису Corruption Is Everywhere:

Hey, even clickteam fusion 2.5 dev version has this 20,000 object limit? What gives?

Is this per frame? What are the best ways to get around this?

I had no idea this was true.

Yeah, it's a per-frame limitation. The way to get around it is to spread your game across several frames or just not have that many active at a time, which is fair enough because most people's frame rate would tank with 20,000 objects being updated constantly anyway.

[darksouls]

Цитата допису Geldon:

Цитата допису Corruption Is Everywhere:

Hey, even clickteam fusion 2.5 dev version has this 20,000 object limit? What gives?

Is this per frame? What are the best ways to get around this?

I had no idea this was true.

Yeah, it's a per-frame limitation. The way to get around it is to spread your game across several frames or just not have that many active at a time, which is fair enough because most people's frame rate would tank with 20,000 objects being updated constantly anyway.

Ah ok , sounds good.

[jasmattkrz]

Don't forget about Construct 2's built in serverless (kinda) multiplayer!

I own Construct 2 Personal (the paid version) and Clicktem Fusion 2.5 (paid, but no additional exporters), and along with what I feel is the superior interface (visually, as well as intuatively), and more exporters for less money, Construct 2 also has built in PC multiplayer functionality. I understand that CF2.5 can achieve multiplayer through Lacewing, but it seems a lot more complicated. My coding background is limited to the Arduino IDE, so the logic of Construct 2 makes sense to me and is fun to use, but CF 2.5 seems less polished even though I understand it's more efficient, especially for Android apps.

Plus, the base CF2.5 tutorial was of no interest to me (a cheesy blockbreaker with Candy Crush style sprites), but Construct 2 had me hooked with their top down shooter and platfromer demos. I modified the top down shooter into a space game using free sprites and added some "bosses" then exported to my Android phone, which uses the lilt sensors for movement and screen touches for direction of fire. It was a lot of fun and very fast to make!

I can confirm that collisions aren't pixel perfoct in my experience, but the automatic option for drawing the bounding box is pretty good, and I can't imagine needing something truly "pixel perfect" (though you might). I also agree that the weighted pathfinding is pretty darn cool, and I look forward to using it. So really, I agree with everyone else here, but I wanted to add Construct 2's simple built-in multiplayer, which was a huge deal for me!

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

Agree, I didn't spoke about Multiplayer.

But for has been used Lacewing in a quick test project, I can confirm it's not really easy BUT I can tell you that it's POWERFULL.

Also for the Tutorial in Clickteam Fusion 2.5: you must know that Clickteam Fusion 2.5 is a "version" superior of Multimedia Fusion 2, which that is a "version" superior to Clickteam Click&Play software. This is just an "old" tutorial, they never released a newer tutorial.

Perhaps you will look furthermore at the sample uploaded to Steam Workshop, you will gladly surprised like you was surprised by using Construct 2.

(Must say that Game Maker PRO and STANDARD is also shipped with boring tutorial, but they are only here for making your comprehension of the software).

This is saying: Even if they had simple tutorials, it's up to you to make a superb game with them ! Tutorials are just here for showing you some "start & try" purposes :)

[jasmattkrz]

I agree that the tutorials shouldn't be a deciding factor in which to use, but when I did the Construct 2 tutorials I kept saying to myself "oh, I see how this works" and I understood the functions I wasn't even using, so it wasn't hard to add new elements to my game that weren't covered in the tutorial.

The CF 2.5 software was less intuitive, and after I was done making the tutorial game, I didn't feel like I had learned much more than how to make that specific game. Who knows, I may change my mind later! I really don't know that one is definitively better than the other, I just think that Construct 2 is cheaper and more intuitive, and better for people without a game development background.

I read all of the comments on this thread just to make sure I had made the right choice for me (since making a full game is a big time investment, and I want to start on the right engine!), but that doesn't mean it would be the right choice for anyone else! thanks for being so thorough and informative about your experiences with each of these programs!

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

You're welcome jasmattkrz !

If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to ask :)

[McHale]

This is a very informative thread. Thank-you for everyone that's contributed.

I wanted to throw another tool into the mix and ask for some comments on App Game Kit 2.

[._.Stashed Girl._.]

App Game Kit 2 (formerly called AGK2), is a totally different approach than the others softwares listed above.

Why?

Because:

AGK2 is not based on the system "CONDITIONS/EVENTS -> ACTIONS"

It's just a powerful engine but all you want do in it must be in pure BASIC code (by the way it is a fake BASIC code since it's called AGK BASIC code).

There is no contextual menu in it, and it is also more oriented to experienced coders than artists.

This can be a good investments but... seriously, this is a bit hard to learn more than 3 others softwares listed above.

Also you must know that sometimes I discovered the demo have some fps slowdown.. in a AGK2 demo project.

I think then the engine is not at the better maturity.