DLC, Sequels, and mods.

[Honeymaple]

I know the game is still in beta but I'd really like to know if you have any plans about this.
Once you finish making this game will you be making any dlc or just move straight to a sequel?
Will there be any mod support? Maybe allow people to make their own maps or at least set spawns and whatnot.

[Duomtl]

Time will tell ;)

[wadprime]

I hope so - I for one was hoping for more werewolf types, espcially given the game's name. Other than that, It'd be nice if they add something to give the game more replayability - I know a lot of people are asking for co-op and such, but that ship's probably sailed. However, a realisitic addition to this game could be a "endless" mode, new maps (or at least a configurable wave setup), challenges (time limits, weapon limitations, etc...), and so on

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

Moddability could be people creating their own "nights" (or days) with a certain store setup and/or no store but people can pick their stuff before the night (with a limit), or they just start with presets, and they pick the wave spawn locations and/or setup waves. New maps would be cool too, or new building addons or whatever (basically a bigger map). Either way downloading people's "challenge maps" (or you guys creating and uploading new challenge maps) would be awesome like the OP said, even if it doesn't involve an actual map editor and instead just a wave setup option kind of deal.

[LiketheShore&theSea]

I'm kinda in love with the fact that so far this has been a good old-fashioned kind of game where you buy their game outright and get the whole enchilada from the get-go. No Day 1 DLC. Nothing held back to be dangled in front of us at a later date to 'complete our experience' when it should have been there from the start but was ripped out to monetize it later. It seems like these guys are offering everything they've been able to produce in the time they've had and with the resources they've been able to come up with, which is a good thing, imo.

Man the lengths to which publishers have been going to exploit their customers and milk their franchises to their ruin lately is shocking and deplorable, imo. I'm also not a huge fan of the free-to-play games that then want to microtransact you right down to the bullets (literally, it's been done, in a pay-to-play to boot, rofl) or will charge you 10 bucks for a gun that looks and feels like nearly every other weapon in their game, right down to the camo. Ridiculous. I refuse to be a part of this ♥♥♥♥ if I can help it.

I've boycotted Origin up to this point and have no interest in their IP if they want to use that as a hammer to force ppl into using their service. The kind of tactics EA has employed... I have no interest in funding their behaviour and have not. I don't need their games. I honestly have more than I can ever play at this point anyway. And there are far better out there to boot, tbh, no matter how popular some of them are.

Only a few months ago I had a game I was in love with destroyed by the publishers/developers of the game, only months after release. I've lost all respect for that developer (and they were behind some great titles I've loved in the past) and doubt I'll ever trust them enough again to buy any of their titles in the future. Truthfully it was probably the large corporate players behind them that were at fault, but I'll never know (though from their attitudes I'm sure they had a hand in it). What consoles, and specificially (in this case) GFWL & Microsoft, (and Warner Bros. Wow your Arkham franchise games are awesome - GJ Rocksteady - but I don't ever want to ever buy another of your games again WB) do to compromise PC gaming never ceases to piss me off.

I purchased the game maybe a month or so after launch, on a whim when I researched it during a sale and it seemed good. Wow was it ever... the actual gameplay was fun and amazing and the art and content in the game crazy good (kudos to the talent behind this, you're awesome and deserve praise for your work), but... the developers were absolute crap at fixing the obvious balance issues and the game was plagued, PLAGUED by issues, game-breaking issues, many because of choosing (or perhaps being forced) to use GFWL instead of Steam for multiplayer. What a broken match-making sytem, God... the lengths I had to go to troubleshoot all the issues myself and the work I had to do to keep making it playable were stupid. I was the one offering players fixes in the forum so they could play the game they paid for, because the devs wouldn't do it themselves, though they were present in some capacity to smother dissention, of course.

In addition *rolls eyes* the game rewarded troll behaviour over skilled play, and the devs were proud of it, apparently. They made sure everyone knew they had no intention of fixing anything balance-wise and that it was their decision to implement things this way and basically a 'suck it up, Princess' attitude. On top of that (again, ty consoles, brilliant work) their patches were few and far between (they have to pay a lot of money to release updates to console) and they made PC users feel like second-class citizens as the patches and fresh content were released up to a month or more later for us compared to Xbox and PS3 (PS3 users had to wait a week or two, maybe, lol). All they had to offer for that were lame excuses (if they wanted to encourage console purchases for higher margins, way to make me a console boycotter for life lol). On top of that their PC port was crap. How ironic. They program these console titles ON A MAC OR PC then end up having to port them back with the laziest, crappiest effort possibly, usually.

Of course their patches/effort mostly focused on adding new content they could charge for, and were pretty useless for actually fixing the issues barring ppl from being able to play, or enjoy playing, their game. In fact, they tended to break more than they ever tried to fix with each one. BTW, as far as I'm aware, they did next to nothing to fix the f2p version either, which bears many of the same flaws/issues minus the GFWL guts they ripped out, lol! So typical.

The game had an unlock progression system designed to encourage you to sink a lot of hours into their game and want to keep playing. Nearly everything you did was recorded stat-wise and ranked against other players. You unlocked custom artwork and other content that you could display and they had customization DLC up the wazoo. I had no problem with the costume/other appearance-related DLC and bought some myself on sale, but they started to release pay-to-win DLC to the point where the only way to hard-counter some of the trollishly annoying OP stuff they added WAS PART OF THE DLC THAT INTRODUCED IT. Clever, eh? Plus they tried to force you to buy through GFWL and not Steam (again, huge release delays) so, I assume, they'd avoid any cut of the profits for Steam.

Then, they have the gall to decide they've pillaged, raped, razed and burned their game down to the ground and in order to milk any more profits they'd have to make it free-to-play. Okay, I wasn't completely adverse to this idea, IF IMPLEMENTED PROPERLY with SENSITIVITY to your paying customers. The PC community was never robust to begin but was actually maintaining a stable pool of players in spite of it; but having fresh blood join the fray wouldn't be a bad thing, honestly.

Of course they way they did was so lazy, so piss-poor, so lack-luster, and so cheap, with the sheerest minimum of effort involved, so baaaad, that they royally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ it up. Couldn't have done it in a worse way imo. In one swift move they basically stone-walled and shut down the paid-for-players' game - only 3 maybe 4 months into the life of the game, no less. Not only did they draw all the player base to the f2p version (a natural process, understandably) but they actively took steps to burn down the bridge behind them. Among other things, they deleted all the stats and player rankings built over those months completely. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard is it to archive that ♥♥♥♥? A seriously small gesture to acknowledge the time and effort your paid customers sank into your game. I even expected them to start a new stat base for the f2p version, though it would have been possible, with a small investment of time and money, to carry on with the f2p stats on top of the base of the paid.

Then, THEN, IF I ever would have put up with what they did and played the f2p version, all the costume DLC, which you could buy as a huge base pack or were included in the full theme DLC, were split up into individual costumes and marked up by a HUGE amount so for the amount of money you'd have put down for maybe 10 to 12 costume options in the paid version pack, you'd have to spend the same for ONLY ONE of the costumes now. Plus, they kept track of who was a paid customer that transitioned to the f2p and offered some paltry gesture pack of lame crap I paid for anyway (not even the good stuff, just mediocre ♥♥♥♥♥, not even the things your really wanted, OF COURSE, smart thinking there) and had the gall to tell me it was provided as a GIFT, FREE OF CHARGE to me while taking away all of the DLC I'd purchased, including those costumes.

Not only did I lose all the progress, stats, and content unlocked for my hundreds of hours of play - rare and extremely difficult to unlock content due to untested, unreasonable difficulty required and balance issues too (did they playtest their ♥♥♥♥ at all?) - I'd have to shell out EVEN MORE MONEY than before to repurchase those costumes and other content I'd ALREADY PAID FOR in the paid game. The sheer arrogance. Unbelievable. Blew me away, but given my past experience with the gaming industry, left me completely unsurprised. They killed their own paid game in less than a handful of months, flushed all my money away in one fell swoop and even had the nerve to demand even more, MUCH MORE, to have it all back. Free to play MY ASS lol.

Other companies have transitioned to f2p before, and I'm sure without this kind of abuse of their existing paid for community. Sure, TF2 players were upset, understandably, when their paid for game was made free, but I'm sure their experience was a lot more pleasant. I'm not even a Valve fanboy either. They've made some incredible gaming content in the past (Half-life series anyone?) which they deserve credit for but i'm not a fan of every decision they've ever made and I loath what they did to TFC with the direction they chose to take TF2. Dumbed down, stripped of any semblance of skill (your player base can't handle a grenade timer, Valve, really?), let's appeal to the lowest common denominator, the Incredi-bads cartoon BS. Hats. Seriously Gabe? Seriously. Gah.

Anyway, if you're still reading my rant at this point (you champ, you, lol) my point is I really hope they don't toss a whole lot of overpriced, broken up, greedy downloadable content ♥♥♥♥♥ our way 'cause that'd really ruin the good thing they have going for them right now. Their title is extremely fairly priced for a brand new dev/first title on Steam and arguably worth much more given the quality it contains and the effort they've displayed here to give ppl what they want, whether they're particularly keen to or not.

The only kind of DLC I'd be interested in would be significant new gameplay content developed in the months following the final polished release version of Sang-Froid, reasonably priced. An endless mode where you have to pit yourself against waves of enemies of increasing difficulty that you could plan and set-up for in between waves, on the top down map perhaps. Or maybe new maps or day/night scenarios etc. such as Temu also suggested, including a few hours of completely new gameplay, new day/night scenarios, new skills for the tree, etc. to extend to the experience, would be great! I don't know how the story ends yet so I'm not sure how easy it would be for them to add on new content given how the game ends, but I'm sure they're inventive enough to find a way if they were motivated, lol. Definitely a free style mode where you can experiment and unleash your half-baked crazy plans and really learn the limits of the enemies and traps would be mighty fine.

However if they find the funds they need from the sale of this game (or kickstarter, maybe?) they should do what Orcs Must Die's dev did and follow up with a Coop friendly, even more detailed/decked out sequel with all the bells and whistles that'd make this game even more feature complete/user awesome, like an Action Cam when your traps are set off, etc. Have a few different characters of different genders/backgrounds you could choose from and level up with unique skill sets, kinda Borderlands style, hmm, yum. Doesn't even had to be a much different story or setting wise, just even more rich and polished. Look at Borderlands 2. Or what Valve tried to do with L4D2 to add all the things they wished they'd been able to in L4D (though imo they failed lol, the original is superior in fun, imo, definitely more on your toes thrilling with the quad-cap potential the first had in vs., which the sequel really doesn't).

[Saitham]

chinese wall of text

[Rabid Urko]

When is your autobiography being published Liketheshore&thesea :p

[Honeymaple]

@LiketheShore&theSea - I'm not asking them to rip content out of the game and sell it as dlc later. I'm asking if they will be creating new content (which will cost them time and money) and then releasing it as dlc (so they can make back the money they spent making it).

I'd like to to play as Josephine. Maybe she could cast spells like the Maikan Shamans instead of using the axe and musket. I realize that wouldn't be lore friendly since she spends most of the game in bed but it would be fun for dlc.

I'd also like to see the Miller as a playable character. I'm not sure how he could be different from the brothers. Maybe have him slap enemies around instead of using weapons. :D
He seems to be the comedy relief character. I love that scene where the brothers walk into the house and he's already in there standing over Josephine's bed staring at her.

PS I didn't like Borderlands 2. The first one was way better and had easier aiming.

[LiketheShore&theSea]

@Urko: lol! Don't you have beef with something a dev/publisher has done to spoil one of your favourite games?

@Albioth: Ya I know you're not dude, what consumer would want that lol? Like I noted at the end I wouldn't mind DLC provided it's done right and contains several hours of new content, but honestly, I'd prefer they put their talent and effort toward making Tome II. Tome I really doesn't need anything added to it; it's a pretty polished standalone experience atm. Extra material would just be bonus fun.

I was just watching Josephine doing her prophetess routine in bed, and wishing we could play as her. She'd put those maikan shamans to shame. :P

By Tome II I'm sure she'll have been saved and on her feet. I just finished Day 21 so I don't know the ending yet but c'mon, the damsel in distress demands rescue, how could they not? So she could be a playable character for sure, plus Jack & Jos, and I too was thinking of a 4th to round out the party...

Phidias (the Miller) comes to mind but I dunno, he's better off as a support char that provides comedic relief or side quest potential for the main chars. I really like the voice acting and feel of the blacksmith, Theo, whose little girl you save from the volfies, too. However, we already have 2 Irish males at our disposal, so how about another female or maybe someone from the Innuastch (did I spell that right? lol. Looks ok though) or some other non-european background for variety? Someone who'd bring something more/different to the mix.

Usually the mix is 3 males, 1 female in video games, but I'm tired of that ratio, tbh. Let's see a 50:50 split! Real world ratio ftw! A female ranged magic user is stereotypical anyway; the second could be a melee char maybe. I bet they'd be tempted to make her a sniper/sneaky type though *rolls eyes*. Or maybe an Annie Oakley style sharpshooter? Again, stereotypical, but still appealing. A gun specialist would add something that the game doesn't truly have yet (though Jack could fill that role) and would be nice to have.

Anyway, I think they should provide different skill sets for each char; with each char being fully playable at any time in coop. I'd like to be able to switch between them at will to work on whoever I want to level up or whose playstyle I want to use that night. This way they could specialize Jack as the clever, sneaky trap user and Jos as the brawn over brains melee brawler. If he's a slow but steady rock maybe the second female char could have less health but be more agile/quick? Perhaps she could be a hybrid of close and ranged attack skills, Jill of all trades, i dunno? Dart in to pull off some fancy knife attacks then pull back for a few shots to the face? She could run ahead of the others and engage the enemy to slow them down before the others arrive to help perhaps. However, if they stick with just the 3 O'Carroll siblings they've already introduced, that'd probably work just fine too.

I think that Artifice, being such a cozily-sized studio, might want to make a full sized game out of all the effort they'd go to to flesh out new unique playable chars with the accompanying story they'd require, to really get their money's worth out of it, but who knows what they have up their sleeves. As they've mentioned, they already have ideas/plans for things they'd like to implement in Tome II if that becomes a reality for them. I sure hope so!

I hope if (when!) they announce the beginning of development of Tome II, they'll start some discussions with the community about what they're looking to bring to it. See what we think about it/have to add. :P

[LiketheShore&theSea]

Borderlands 2. *sigh*. I really liked the first BL and was looking forward to BL2, but it just didn't last for me the way the first one did or I would have liked it to. Don't get me wrong: I love the new enemy and map variety and LOVE the enemy level up mechanic to gain better loot opportunities (very nicely done guys!); which are professionally made if a bit sloppily executed in places. You'll find light bulbs dangling in mid air, other brushes they should have removed that clip or were obviously meant to be temporary placeholders, and if you look down at the floor outside the map (the 'skybox') you'll see so many black holes that they didn't bother to fill in or try to make realistic to keep you from remembering 'oh ya, I'm playing a video game right now'.

Those things are just minor distractions from the game and forgiveable, but the real deal-breaker for me was the UI. I can't tell you how important a slick UI is to me after playing so many games for so long. I hate when it gets in my way or is clunky or constantly wastes my time trying to navigate through; it ruins the experience. I demand efficiency!

I love the gajillions of weapons at your disposal in BL which was only amplified in BL2 which is great BUT they didn't bother to update their interface to handle that kind of variety. In fact, it got even more consolitis (fuuuuuuu) and sooo bad. I'm a loot ♥♥♥♥♥ in games like that. At least in a game like Oblivion you can have a house with a bunch of different chests to sort your babies into and display some of them but BL2 has NOTHING of the sort. It makes playing the game hell for me, PLUS they made it so u can't edit your characters as easily as in the first.

In the first I'd always edit my backpack size to accomodate my predilection for hoarding loot I like (who DOESN'T farm rare item drops in this game, really) or give my chars the hex colours I want them to have but they shut that down tight in the sequel *shakes fists*. Whyyyy. It's a single player or coop experience, not a competitive multiplayer, for God's sake. Don't stand in the way of me customizing your game's experience to my liking please.

The first one had a text list of weapons which was annoying to scroll down and needed a quick page up/page down feature and a home/end function for example (my poor, poor cramped mousewheel finger) but the second had some little boxes to snap ♥♥♥♥ into and was even more clunky and less organizable, probably for the convenience of those gamepad ♥♥♥♥♥♥ playing on their consoles, I'm sure. Also, remember how sore your 'e' finger would get collecting ammo, etc., once you'd played for a couple hours? They fixed that by allowing your char to auto-pick up from the ground (yaa, big round of applause for Gearbox!) but didn't extend it to the safes and other lootable containers that you open (gahh, why you dips, why). After playing BL2 for a while (I loved the Gaige char btw, she was awesome!) I just gave up because all the UI/menu/backpack inventory management just became too much of a hassle and stole too much time and enjoyment from the game for me.

Gearbox demonstrated the direction they're going with the franchise and frankly they're not addressing the issues that are standing in the way of me being able to customize my gaming experience the way I'd like to have fun playing their game. FIX YOUR UI. The No. 1 Videogame Sin in my eyes is wasting my time in your menus unneccessarily, because of poor design choices. You repeat the same actions over and over so many times (many THOUSANDS of times) over the hundreds of hours of play you sink into a game you love, that any flaws in the interface become blindingly obvious and only more and more irritating and frustrating as time goes on, with no way to mitigate them.

That bank vault they gave you access to... can you imagine if you could walk into it and there were different racks or chests or display cases in there, matrix style baby! Let me sort my loot in more clever ways such as by level so the most relevant weapons rise to the top of your inventory... the list continues, I could mention many other clever ways to improve the loot management in their game. A game with a bajillion weapons NEEDS it.

Yeah, this just means I probably won't buy a sequel full price. I'll wait for it to come on sale instead. Makes me sad. :(

[Honeymaple]

I'd also like so see Tome II but that might take awhile and I'm already on my third playthrough so I'd like to see some dlc in between the Tomes to keep me occupied. Something like an endless wave or random spawns so it'd be different each time I played.

"You sure don't do nothin' like other folks, you O'Carrols" - Theo
The blacksmith is a pretty awesome guy but I think he'd play similar to Jo.

I was also thinking about the nun but she might play too much like Josephine.
Apparently she can cut a wolf in half with two fingers up her... nose. :D

An Amerindian character is a good idea. Maybe the Chief could give her to the brothers as a gift to help them. Or is that too cliche? She could use a bow and a spear to give her better melee range.

Each character is definitely going to need their own unique skill tree. Especially if Josephine will be playable. She'd need a magic focused tree and healing skills like the Shamans. A full heal would be a bit OP though. Heals would be nice for co-op too.

They would need to be careful adding a magic character though. At the moment the game seems to be low fantasy and having a magic character might bring it into high fantasy. But as long as Josephine doesn't turn into an elf, Jo doesn't become a dwarf, and jack doesn't become a paladin then it should be fine.

I also hope they discuss their plans for Tome II and consider our ideas and suggestions. Most devs completely abandon the players once they get their money. Hoping that won't happen here.

[LiketheShore&theSea]

A fair Indian maiden to help them set traps and fight with a bow and spear? Sounds doable, lol.

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Originally posted by LiketheShore&theSea:

A fair Indian maiden to help them set traps and fight with a bow and spear? Sounds doable, lol.

would that indian maiden start out with silver spear? Would she be able to go to town to bless her spear in the convent?
Would the price for bow upgrades make sense? would downtime represented by the brothers reloading their guns make sense, or would she be able to fire instantly after the first shot?
(hmm maybe she could have a crossbow? probably wouldn't be accurate but would make more sense in the game mechanics... while we are at it why does the indians have silver bullets but no guns?)
Will she be drinking alcohol for stats boosts like the brothers?


EDIT: oh wait is this for tome II? nevermind.

[Honeymaple]

@Gorlom - She wouldn't be able to fire instantly. Bows don't actually work like they do in games and movies. There would need to be time for her to get an arrow, aim, draw, adjust firing angle as needed etc. Since the game auto-aims, all of that can be represented by the time between shots.

For boosts she could probably use Amerindian beads and feathers or something. It would be simpler if every character used the same items though.

[Shorty4573™]

I like the ideas of all these! What a fantastic game!

[Shorty4573™]

Does anyone know what will be added to the full version if any compared to the BETA?
/