¿Cómo hacer dinero en Rise of Venice?

[PapaX3]

Hola.

Me he metido en este juego y me estoy volviendo loco para hacer algo de dinero. Lo necesito para subir un nivel y que siga el tutorial, a ver si así me entero de qué va, ya que al parecer no hay un maldito manual para aprender a jugar. A lo mejor me estoy precipitando al escribir esto, pero esta moda de no hacer manuales o reglamentos para entender mínimamente el funcionamiento de los juegos es una maldición que se va extendiendo cada vez más.

Por lo que veo, en Rise of Venice vas a contra reloj, ya que según pasa el tiempo vas perdiendo capital poco a poco, un goteo que más bien parece un chorro. Porque cuando averiguas dónde hay algo que puede ser rentable comprar y dónde venderlo, llegas al punto de compra y vas al punto de venta, el tiempo empleado ha ocasionado más pérdidas que las ganancias que esperabas obtener. Y así vamos para atrás como los cangrejos (que por cierto no van para atrás, todo lo más de lado, pero eso dice el dicho popular) En fin, que no sé qué hacer.

Supongo (que quizás sea mucho suponer) que habrá un sistema para que esto no suceda ¿Lo sabe alguien? Lo he buscado por Internet pero nada de nada. Agradeceré infinito cualquier explicación.

Gracias por adelantado y un saludo.

[daan_hugo]

Hola!

Avanzar en una excusa para mi mal español.
En realidad, la cuestión de lo que preguntas deben ser resueltas ya con el manual. En el tutorial de la campaña, también se explican estas cosas. Con las rutas comerciales automáticas bien controlados debe corregir el problema con facilidad puede resolver.

Si usted habla un poco de Alemán o Inglés se encuentra por aquí un par de muy buenas pruebas: http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/

Saludos,
Daan

[PapaX3]

Hello.

Tank you very much for your answer. My English is very poor, anyway I´ll try to explain my problems.

1) At last I get a Manual, but it is very short in details. I think that many important SMALL details about economy (convoys and trade) are no explained enough.

2) I.e.: Why my money go down as the time passes? Is there any way to avoid it? Because that I lost more money than I can get by trade!

3) What does the sentence "Se ha alcanzado el número máximo de barcos libres" (The maximun free ships has been reached) mind?

I´ll see the Forum you recommended me.

Thank you.

[daan_hugo]

Hi!

1) Well, these things should be explained in the tutorial a little more detailed. In addition, you might have a look at the information which is given to you be all the 'i'-buttons (there should be in nearly any dialogue). Furthermore, there should be a section within your chronicle.

2) This can have several causes. Have a look at your ingame statistics - there should be an answer ;) Often there are many, many sailors on several convoys - and those guys can be really expensive. If this won't help you at all, I'd recommend to upload your save somewhere and let other folks have a look at it ;)

3) This means the following to you: If you don't assign those free ships to convoys, you won't be able to buy new ships. Try to stack them in a convoy (maybe rename it to "Free-Ship-Collector" :P ) and you should be able to buy more ships ;)

Best regards,
Daan

[PapaX3]

Hi, Daan:

Thank you very much for your help. Despite of the "losses" for salaries, I get rise myself to the next commercial level ("Mercader" ¿"Trader" in English?), and continue the main plot.

I've received brigantine "Lusitania" and my "uncle" Marco as captain for a new convoy. So I have two convoys, the first one I get, with two ships, and a new one with a single ship. Now I'd like to get working autonomously this a new convoy. I made a detailed trade route in Adriatic Sea. But when I push "activate route" again appear the notice "maximum free ships", the same problem I said point 3) before and the same Feterkrolle said in his post of October 3, 2013, in Steam Forum. In your answer you said something about to buy ships, but I don't want to buy ships, but to have this a new convoy working autonomously.

Thank you again.

Best regards

[daan_hugo]

Hi!

The message "maximum free ship" should only appear as soon as you have reached the limit of free ships. These ships can be located at any port. You might got them from boarding or buying. ...Anyways, this shouldn't affect any of your trading routes... If there aren't any free ships, it might be a good idea to give me your save... (send it to [e-mail] and refer to this thread)

Best regards,
Daan

[PapaX3]

Hi.

OK, I´ll send you the save file as soon as I find where is it docked in my computer. I have been looking for it, but by the moment I counld no find it.

Thanks

[PapaX3]

Hi.

I´ve sent the save file.

Best regards.

[daan_hugo]

Hi!

I got your savegame and tested it a little. I was not able to reproduce the issue. I selected the convoy 'Lusitania' and planed the route (adding some towns). Then, I edited the settings for each town and when I clicked 'Activate Route' it worked just fine... ...and furthermore, I've seen that there aren't any free vessels. What excactly do I have to do to reproduce?

Best regards,
Daan

[PapaX3]

Hi.

I started the game once again. This time I proposed myself the following objectives:

1) Constitute a solid economy that reported me good incomes by:
- At sea, 125 strength points convoys with every ship plenty of weapons and extra sailors in order to avoid pirate attacks.
- At cities, rise up only primary products industries, since I don't understand the use of storehouse to get the secondary ones.

2) Because of the ships equipment takes both time and money and to get powerful ships requires an high prestige level I have not, avoid any combat by the moment.

3) Save continuously the game in order to be able to restart if necessary.

4) Try to follow the main plot to improve my knowledge of the game.

So I did it. I went slowly. I was surprised this time because things that had not happened in the preceding game took place:

1) Shortly after to be playing I discovered that my "popularity" in Venice had dropped... to 6%! Why? Mystery. Among the 10 members of the Senate I have 55% of average. I do not understand why it fell so much in Venice, where I had 4 industries and 4 houses for workers. Why so great difference between the two games?

2) This time "Families" were much more hostile and soon I lost their support to grow up in the rank. As a result I could not buy better ships at Venice.

3) Because of my waste of money in equipping ships, and the low of benefits because the extra sailors, I had no money to counter hostile families or rise up my prestige. And I cannot build schools or hospital because my low prestige.

4) In this situation I could not devote myself searching the 5 map treasure pieces: the economy stagnated, recharging the game continuously because of pirate attacks, the popularity going down, etc.

5) As a result I couldn't follow the campaign plot tutorial and learn the functioning of the game.

To solve so many mysteries is disheartening. I cannot progress due to pure ignorance of the operation of the game. Why my prestige has lowered so much at Venice? What I have to do to get efficient trade routes? How do I to get stocked raw materials in elaborate resources industries? None of this is explained in the Manual. All these problems take me too long. So I have desisted from playing, notwithstanding I had started the "Annexes" Manual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-E0DnXuuwzSaXpXeElfNVFHd0U/edit?usp=sharing

I have been reflecting on the problems I've faced in the last games I've play: "X-Rebirth", "Silent Hunter III" and "Rise of Venice". Here are my impressions. Because my deficient English, I prefer this time to write in Spanish, so I can explain clearly every idea. I apologize.

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MANUALES Y TUTORIALES

Tras haber empleado muchas horas y esfuerzo tratando de comprender el funcionamiento de "Rise of Venice", de GAMING MIND y Kalypso, quiero hacer unos comentarios sobre una faceta común a todos los juegos: el reto que supone aprender a jugar.

Independientemente de los diseños gráficos y su temática, un juego que sea medianamente complejo necesita que los jugadores aprendan su mecánica a la vez que se divierten con él. Si no, se aburrirán y lo abandonarán, y sólo aquellos a los que les gusten particularmente los retos y problemas se tomarán su aprendizaje como un desafío personal. Dada la abundancia de juegos que hay ¿para qué perder tiempo en uno que no ha cuidado este detalle?

He jugado prácticamente toda la serie "X" de EGOSOFT, lo que me ha llevado años, incluido el último producto: "X-Rebirth". Lo comento porque tienen mucho en común con "Rise of Venice": una importante faceta económica, el jugador parte de una situación bastante humilde para tratar de levantar un imperio, hay piratas, estaciones, naves, combates, rivalidades, clanes y demás. La diferencia es que uno transcurre en el Mediterráneo y el otro en el espacio. Pero comparten muchísimos rasgos y sus niveles de dificultad me parecen semejantes. Aprovecharé estas circunstancias para explicar lo que quiero decir.

Un juego se puede aprender con un Manual, con tutoriales o con una mezcla de ambos. Si el juego es complejo, el manual y/o los tutoriales deberían ser bastante detallados, explicando pormenorizadamente los pasos que hay que dar para llevar a cabo cada acción y los porqués de cada suceso. Si no lo son, el jugador se pierde tanto porque no comprende por qué suceden las cosas, como porque no sabe las acciones que debería llevar a cabo para lograr cada objetivo. La ventaja del Manual es que lo puedes leer antes de empezar a jugar. Los tutoriales que se pueden ejecutar ANTES de empezar a jugar son todavía mejor, porque a la vez que lo explican el proceso te lo muestran "en vivo". Un juego con magníficos tutoriales de este tipo es "Company of Heros", de Relic Entertainment.

El problema se plantea cuando el Manual o los Tutoriales son poco detallados o cuando se pretende que juegues a la vez que aprendes con una especie de "guía-tutorial" ¡Mucho cuidado cómo se hace la guía-tutorial! Porque si no es metódica y muy ordenada, o no es detallada en explicaciones, el jugador se puede atascar en un determinado paso y de ahí no hay forma de salir. Como todo está interrelacionado, se puede bloquear en un paso inicial o no comprender algo que se desarrollará en un paso posterior al que aún no has llegado, y al que puede que no llegue nunca si se desespera y abandona. Insisto que hablo de juegos medianamente complejos. Por no tener una Manual en condiciones, la pérdida de tiempo empleado en pruebas y ensayos "acierto-error" es tremenda. Mucho gancho tiene que tener el juego para que una persona se empeñe en desentrañar unos misterios que sus diseñadores no se han tomado la molestia de explicar bien.

Si el juego consigue una aceptable audiencia, la creación de Foros ayuda mucho. Los diversos Foros que se han abierto por la serie "X" de EGOSOFT es impresionante y la generosidad con la que unos ayudan desinteresadamente a otros dice mucho de la especie humana... ¡Si hay hasta una "wiky"!

Creo que el truco del éxito de un juego con una creciente economía, combates, crecimiento y mucho pensar, como estos que he mencionado, es que permita avanzar en varias direcciones y que sea el jugador el que se auto-impone el ritmo que quiere dar a sus progresos. Y que el trasfondo de la historia o aventura que se recrea no lo agobie, permitiéndole sobrevivir desahogadamente mientras aprende a desenvolverse, incluso divirtiéndose en tareas sencillas que le vayan animando a seguir adelante. En esto la serie de EGOSOSFT es ejemplar.

Pero parece que la moda ahora es hacer Manuales de pena y tutoriales lamentables para estos juegos nada sencillos. Y así mal vamos. Por ejemplo, el Manual de "X3 Reunión", que EGOSOFT sacó en 2005, es muchísimo más detallado que el de "X-Rebirth", que se lanzó en 1013, bastante más patatero. Y el tutorial que éste último incluye durante la trama principal es también muy deficiente. Y eso que la complejidad no ha disminuido sustancialmente. No conozco "Port Royale", que parece que es el antecesor de "Rise of Venice", pero puedo asegurar que el manual de éste último es muy deficiente y que entender su mecánica es una tarea de cuidado. No hay foros en español (que yo sepa) y es una pena porque está muy bien hecho y todo traducido al español. Tiene una "guía-tutorial" que se desarrolla a la vez que avanzas jugando en "modo campaña", que presenta los problemas que ya he expuesto. Y aunque poco a poco, a base de comenzar una y otra vez, vas aprendiendo algo, llega un momento que dices: "¡Hasta aquí he llegado, no le dedico ni un minuto más!" El problema no es que sea complejo, sino que no entiendes porqué pasan las cosas o qué hacer para controlarlas.

Así que lo dejas y buscas otra cosa. Y bien que me fastidia dejar algo a medias.

Saludos

Best regards

[daan_hugo]

Hi!

Thanks a lot for the honest feedback!

I'll try to help you a little bit with your ingame issues ;)
Well, the first thing I'm going to talk about is your reputation loss in Venice. This can have several causes - e.g. buying too many units of one commodity (until the stock dropps below one green bar) can cause a massive reputation loss. Try to supply the city with all needed goods and your reputation will be back soon ;)
This leads me to the next point: the senators. Each one of them has a different preference - e.g. one of them loves the town of Venice, one of them loves 'Spice' and another one loves to see dead pirates... and so on... You can take advantage of this situation - you kill pirates, sell goods to the town of Venice and build more buildings there and your reputation at the sanate will grow in no time ;) Have a close look at every description of each senator and you should be able to know what to do in order to gain more reputation at their families. Furthermore, you'll get a small reputation bonus for each dead pirate. If you battle them manually and you've some practice with it, you should be able to exploit a situation with many pirates. My personal strategy would look like this: Take a huge convoy including one very fast and agile vessel (in order to use a 'hit and run' tactic - with that strategy you even can survive a battle without getting damage plus three boarded vessels) and equip it completly. Then, remove every ship exept for the fast vessel. Now, you should see, that the 'One-fast-vessel'-convoy should be really overequipped. With that convoy you can start to hunt down the pirates (maybe you should check youtube for good tactics ;) ). After a while, you should be able to board the pirate convoys and for each killed pirate you'll get the following: The vessels (you can keep or sell them), their plundered goods and a small reputation bonus - and for pirate hideouts it will be lots of this stuff! (There is another strategy to not kill the hideouts in order to let pirates grow for a little while so you can get the reputation bonus as soon as you need it ;) ).
I hope this helps a little ;)

Best regards,
Daan

[daan_hugo]

Addition: I've wrote a guide in german a while ago (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=181676043). You might try to copy the content into a transation software in order to get some more information about the game ;)

Best regards,
Daan

[PapaX3]

Hi, Daan.

Thanks a lot for your answer. Ok, I'll try once again.

I take your text in order to clarify every sentence.

Well, the first thing I'm going to talk about is your reputation loss in Venice. This can have several causes - e.g. buying too many units of one commodity (until the stock dropps below one green bar) can cause a massive reputation loss. Try to supply the city with all needed goods and your reputation will be back soon ;)

1) I never buy a commodity under one green bar, because the prise rise up strongly.

2) Which are the other causes make mi reputation up or down? I need to know every one in order to act in consequence!

3) Am I the only supplier of Venice? Taking apart my convoys I see many other ships going and coming from the town. Do they influence in the town prosperity or only my ships do it?

4) As I see by your explanation, the most of my convoys should go to Venice in order to supply the city. Is that right? And I must suppose the "Captain" modus will supply the city as it needs.

This leads me to the next point: the senators. Each one of them has a different preference - e.g. one of them loves the town of Venice, one of them loves 'Spice' and another one loves to see dead pirates... and so on... You can take advantage of this situation - you kill pirates, sell goods to the town of Venice and build more buildings there and your reputation at the sanate will grow in no time ;) Have a close look at every description of each senator and you should be able to know what to do in order to gain more reputation at their families.

5) Ok, I known it. But I cannot bring "spices" because my low ranking don't let my buy it commodity; I cannot build a church because my low prestige in Venice (I need... 100%!); if I spent money building storehouses abroad (it is another Senator requirements), I have not money for ships equipment; If I fight pirates, I will lost sailors and ammunitions, the ships will result damaged and I need money for reparations, sailors and ammunitions... Too much money I have not! I know: this is the challenge I must accept... ¡Huummm! You know? This is the part of a game that make me enjoy of it!

Furthermore, you'll get a small reputation bonus for each dead pirate. If you battle them manually and you've some practice with it, you should be able to exploit a situation with many pirates.

6) I considered this as a secondary objective, may be I was wrong. First I tried to get a solid economic situation and freedom of action. If I had to be avoiding attacks against my convoys, saving and recharging continuously, I had no time to learnt tactical manoeuvres.

My personal strategy would look like this: Take a huge convoy including one very fast and agile vessel (in order to use a 'hit and run' tactic - with that strategy you even can survive a battle without getting damage plus three boarded vessels) and equip it completly. Then, remove every ship exept for the fast vessel. Now, you should see, that the 'One-fast-vessel'-convoy should be really overequipped. With that convoy you can start to hunt down the pirates (maybe you should check youtube for good tactics ;) ). After a while, you should be able to board the pirate convoys and for each killed pirate you'll get the following: The vessels (you can keep or sell them), their plundered goods and a small reputation bonus - and for pirate hideouts it will be lots of this stuff! (There is another strategy to not kill the hideouts in order to let pirates grow for a little while so you can get the reputation bonus as soon as you need it ;) ).
I hope this helps a little ;)

7) Then the "tactical" part is very-very important, so much that to make progress by a "strategic" game (resolving battles "automatically") is much more difficult. Am I right?

8) How important for economy and prestige is to rise industries and houses at towns? More o less than convoys?

9) How I learn to use the warehouse? Should you please help me? How I do to get primary commodities stored in the warehouse for use by secondary industries? may I order a convoy to transport them?

I do no speak German. I translate your Manual to Spanish by on line translator. Now I am trying to give sense to the text. When I finish I'll send you for corrections, if possible. Thank you.

Best regards.

[daan_hugo]

Hi!

1) That's might be an issue. As it was explained in the tutorial, I'd recommend to buy only as much goods as possible as long as two green bars are visible. Otherwise this would lead to a reputation loss.

2) Well, this can depend on the supply, the status (rich, poor, wealthy and so on), events (such as storm, earthquake, plague and so on), sabotages and similar things. You see, it's not completly in your hands, but your influence can have an impact.

3) They do, but this is not very much. It's always better to take care of it by yourself.

4) I'm not quite sure what you mean with the "captain modus"... If you want to supply a city (in order to get a higher reputation) it is recommendable to visit them fequently with your automated (and well set - but that's another topic) routes and everthing should work just fine.

5) Well, you won't be able to satisfy the 'Spice' guy (or the others you mentioned), as your rank is currently not high enough.
You said "If I fight pirates, I will lost sailors and ammunitions, the ships will result damaged and I need money for reparations, sailors and ammunitions... " - This is not quite correct. If you're fighting manually as I mentioned in my last post, you won't have these issues (or maybe with a not as heavy loss as you've described it ;) - as I mentioned before: youtube offers some videos (Port Royale battles are pretty similar too) on this topic). Hunting pirates sure is a rich money source ;)

6) If you don't equip your trading route convoys which are frequently getting plundered by pirates this should not be a big issue, as all the stolen goods will be stored at the pirates hideout. As soon as you destroy the hideout you'll get those goods back plus the goods stolen from other traders ;) If you don't destroy the hideout, these goods will be offered on the black market after a while. This is a different way to get those goods back (and those of the other traders) - a little more expensive but still it should be a good bargain.

7) Well, kinda... On the one hand, if you're really good at fighting (which is pretty easy to learn), I'd definitely answer this with a yes. On the other hand, if you're a real trading expert (maybe with lots of Patrician and Port Royale experience) you can manage the game without any manual fighting (except for the campaign driven battles). From what I got to hear from our fans and beta testers, those guys mix those strategies - they start the game with trading routes as long as no pirates are spawning (which should be the case for lower ranks). As soon as some pirates appear, they start to hunt them down manually (but not the hiedeouts so they can re-grow and be re-destroyed for the money and the reputation ;) ). After a while you'll have a massive fleet and loads of money. (So, that's basicly what I heard the most... well, and what I did during testing sessions, so I can approve that this way works very well.)

8) Very good question! I'm not quite sure, because it depends on your playing style. I've seen saves with nearly no convoys and a huge productions - woked very well for those guys. Contrary, I've seen saves nearly without any productions (or only the needed), but with lot's of convoys. ...both ways should work.

9) Well, this really depends on what you want to do at the steward. I'd recommend to open the screen and look out for the 'i' button as it will show a text describing the screen. I've seen that you're an active member at http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/. There are some threads about the warehouse and the steward and if there is no matching thread just raise one ;)

Best regards,
Daan

[arnaupt.1975]

El Port Royal 2 era muy ambicioso, el 3 lo es mas, el Rise NO LO ENTIENDO.

[PapaX3]

Hola, arnaupt.1975

Pues mira, a base de trabajarmelo, al final he acabado entendiendo la mecánica del juego, incluído el funcionamiento de la economía. Bueno, del todo del todo no he llegado a dominarlo, pero casi, lo suficiente para hacerme con 20 millones y poder finalizar la trama principal, que es lo que me interesaba. Y cuando he llegado a ser el Dux, y el juego ya era "libre", lo he dejado porque es más y más de lo mismo.

Si puedo ayudarte en algo, dímelo.

Saludos.