Resolution: 640x400

[Euphytose]

This is a joke right? You can't play this game in 1080p? I used the winsetup program in the game's directory and there's no option to change the resolution.

[pezhead53]

Um, have you seen the screenshots? The game is done in pixel art.

[Euphytose]

That's no excuse. You could have a small window at the center of your screen with black borders all around it.

Also, the game seems to have a big issue with the mouse. I have to move it very, very fast otherwise the game simply doesn't register anything.

Funny thing is, in the Steam Overlay, the mouse works perfectly, it's only acting strangely within the game itself.

[bliss]

You can only scale it with 'graphics filter'. I like to play in 1280x800 windowed.

[Euphytose]

Ok, I got the game in windowed mode, but the mouse is even worse than before. It makes huge jumps or doesn't move at all. Again, only in the game, Steam Overlay is perfectly fine, and outside the game window, everything is also as normal.

Edit: Nevermind, I searched for my issue and apparently almost everyone has it. I have no idea how old this game engine is, but it's definitely not suited for Windows 7 or 8. Not going to bother tweaking everything for one damn game.

@devs Upgrade your engine, this is pixel art, shouldn't be that hard to make a new one from scratch.

[Mark Y.]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. With various settings you can run it full screen, though as you note, there are black bars on either side. My understanding is that people have generally been able to solve the mouse issue by disabling Steam overlay or Logitech's software if it's running.

Let me know if you can't sort through it and we're happy to help. You're absolutely right that the engine is quite old -- its bones go back to DOS days -- and its strength is in its logic and systems, not in its graphics engine. (Obviously.) Anyway, let's see if we can get the game working for you. If we can't, I'll make sure we make it up to you some other way.

In the meanwhile, happy new year! AGS is one year more out of date. :)

[Zamir GOAT [MLG Monkey King]]

I dunno, I just played it at 640x400, fullscreen, on a 1080p monitor, and it worked totally fine. Looked great, no weird mouse stuff, nothing.

[James Spanos]

Btw the solution to your problem concerning the mouse speed.

http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/forum/index.php?topic=1079.0

[Euphytose]

I've already said I'm not going to tweak all my mouse settings for one game.
In my entire library, this is the only game that's given me issues with the mouse. How hard is it to tell the game to use hardware cursor or raw input? Probably not much, every game does that. Even a game from 2003 has no issue with the mouse.

While we're at it, in fact coding the entire game should be done in a week. Tops. I mean we clearly slacked off here. It took us 2 years, what a bunch of losers.

There's no need to get angry, you could have taken 5 years to make your game, had it been with a proper engine this would have been worth the wait. Even Flash is better than this, and that's really saying something considering Flash is terrible.
Your game is somehow applying an insane amount of acceleration, only in its own window. The "solution" is to use Windows godawful speed scaling to overcome the issue. This isn't a solution, it's a dodgy workaround. I don't mind fiddling with setting files or installing usermade patches, because that's only affecting the game itself. When I have to change settings that are used by basically everything else (the mouse), I'm not going to bother. I already uninstalled the game, shame because it looked alright despite being forced to play in a window.

[Mark Y.]

Euphytose -- Sorry to hear you've uninstalled it. Just to explain, we didn't code AGS, the engine in which Primordia (and, for example, Gemini Rue, The Cat Lady, Ben There, Dan That, and Quest for Infamy) was made. The mouse issue, which is caused largely though not exclusively by the way Steam overlay interacts with AGS, was something we were unaware of when we started making the game because (1) we didn't expect to sell the game through Steam; and (2) essentially no AGS games were being sold through Steam, so it wasn't a known issue.

Not only were we unaware of the problem, there's nothing we could do to fix it other than (re)making the game in an entirely different engine. As best I can tell, everyone who has had the problem (which is a small fraction of the players) and has reported it has been able to find a workaround.

From an end-user standpoint of someone stuck with the mouse bug, I can see how "unusable mouse" would seem like it would make the engine obviously the wrong on to use. But AGS does quite a lot of things quite a bit better than any other engine out there -- there's a reason why so much of the retro point-and-click renaissance has been based on the AGS engine. While there are other options, those options have their own downsides -- portability, support, stability, ease of development, etc.

I wouldn't use AGS again, in part because of the mouse issue, but more because patching is extraordinarily difficult. In the meanwhile, if you're not interested in getting Primordia to work (I can understand not wanting to take the time), shoot me a message and I'll see what we can do to make it up to you.

[Arator]

Maybe you should consider to game on a console. The PC is an open platform with nearly unlimited possible hardware and software combinations. It is impossible to test a game on all of them. Therefore there are patches and workarounds when someone encounters an error.

Two of the developers of this game offered you fast and personal technical assistance, that would most likely solve your problem, and also offered you a refund. I really can't see any reason left to complain.

If you don't like the game, fine, you are free to have your own opinion, but don't blame the game and the developers for something that they couldn't expect and prevent in the first place, and that they also offered to fix for you.

I enjoyed the game especially because of the used engine and artstyle.

[Euphytose]

I know there's a workaround I didn't use and that's why I didn't take the refund. I will not alter settings that are not in the game simply to make ONE game work. And it doesn't fix the issue, that's why it's called a workaround. When there's a hole in your roof you place a bucket to stop the rain, that's a workaround, the solution would be to repair the roof.
I've been told the engine might date from Windows 3.1, which totally explains the issue. It's not a matter of disliking the game, which isn't true, it's a matter of me not wanting to go out of my way to fix something I'm not responsible of.
Yes, most people don't have the issue, but no, it's not on my end, many people have reported horrendous mouse handling, just google "Primordia mouse issue".
And suggesting to play on console, really? Keep your insults to yourself.

[Mark Y.]

While I appreciate people leaping to defend Wormwood's honor, I think Euphytose is perfectly right to be frustrated the game doesn't work for him. Of course, one of the drawbacks of PC gaming is that sometimes games don't work; but most games do, and it always sucks to get something you're excited about and not get to play it. (As I PMed to Euphytose, I distinctly remember a semi-ruined Christmas where my parents got me The Journeyman Project, only to discover our Mac was too old to run it.)

There is a symmetrical disappointment that happens when a game creator sees someone excited to play his game, only to have that excitement soured when the game doesn't work. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the pleasure people take in Primordia is the only balm to relentless self-doubt. :)

[Euphytose]

I wouldn't go as far as to say the game doesn't work, it does. I can launch it, I could even play it if I wanted to. But the state the mouse is in, well, let's just say no one in their right mind would attempt to play the game this way.
Now, the reason why I'm not trying the suggested fix is because I'm a very fussy person when it comes to settings, and I will not change settings that are used by every other game that I play to accommodate one other game.

I can:

- fiddle with setting files
- install various patches made by the community (Unreal and Deus Ex come to mind, unplayable on modern OS)
- change my Nvidia settings for this particular game

Anything that keeps to a specific game and not my entire library, basically.

If someone finds a solution that involves only one of the above, I will gladly reinstall the game and play it. If you remake the game using a modern engine, I will also gladly repay for it.

Now you told me you were using a Logitech mouse and running Windows 7 as well. There is no way to tell exactly what causes the issue, and I know I'm part of the small portion of people who have it, but it's there. I'm not using any fancy mouse settings. Again, what the game does is apply an absurd amount of acceleration. Moving the mouse normally doesn't do anything, and when it moves, it skips a large portion of the window, this is obviously not the intended behavior. I use 600 dpi, which is pretty low, that's what I like. It's entirely possible some people just didn't notice the issue because their sensitivity was high enough. Either way, it makes no sense not to use either Windows input, or raw input, especially for a point n click. This is hard-coded into the engine, not your call. However, I'm not going to deal with what can be called an antique by today's standards. Maybe if I had all the time in the world I would, but alas that's not the case, and when I have free time to spare, I like to do things that entertain me. When I get an issue with a game, usually it takes 15mn to solve tops. These days it's usually lack of FoV sliders in first person shooters, inability to access various critical graphic options through the menus, etc... These can be easily dealt with, or when they can't, I simply don't buy the game. I always make sure I will get everything I want before I buy something. The issue with your game was unexpected, mostly because of the simplicity a point n click suggests. And besides this mouse issue, the game runs well. I just had an issue where dialogue was auto-skipped instantly at first, but then it worked. There's also that resolution thing, but 1200x800 or whatever it was did the trick. As long as it stays in a window and doesn't change my screen resolution I don't mind.

Anyway, call me stupid for not trying this "fix", but increasing cursor speed through pixel skipping (the basic Windows way) and then tone it down through the mouse DPI isn't a valid option for me. I didn't take the refund because the product actually works, it's a finished product. However it doesn't work as well as I hope it would for, for now, unknown reasons, and I am not willing to spend time figuring this out. I already spent an hour trying various settings with the game config.exe and steam overlay, this didn't change anything. Someone actually suggested to uninstall the logitech gaming software, which obviously is not possible because, well, I need it.

I hope someone finds an easy fix though I don't think it's going to happen.

[Arator]

If you felt insulted by my recommendation i have to apologize. Your unwillingness of "fixing" the problem with the recommended workaround implied that you were only complaining because you like to complain. After all this is the internet, and that happens quite a lot.

I can understand your point, and i can follow your argumentation, but i still don't quite understand one thing. Any change you do to play primordia is temporary, you could fiddle around with the settings, play the game and change them back. It wouldn't hit your system setup for any other game at all.

Of course it would take you some effort just to play this game, but you already mentioned that you are willing and capable of doing some tweaking. So what i don't get is why you draw the line at that specific point.

After all it is just some software changes that can be reverted, changing hardware or using unkown third party software is something that would be my personal red flag.

[Euphytose]

It can be reverted but sometimes it will create issues. I've had problems in the past, I will not try my luck again. I mostly play first person shooters, and I play to win. I want my settings to be perfect, especially mouse settings.
You said it yourself, it's a PC, expect the unexpected even when everything should be working fine.
Most people would instantly use the workaround, I choose not to, it's probably a stupid decision and this is why I don't deserve a refund.
My first post in this thread was obviously over the top and the first issue was fixed, even though I would have prefered to have 1080p scaling.