Yor strategies on gifted.

[RAZIEL]

Having a lot of trouble playing yor on gifted difficulty. Does anyone have any tips? I can dominate with them on any other difficulty and easily win on gifted with other races but with Yor on gifted I have a lot of trouble. I cant seem to get enough resources to upgrade my population quick enough. If I go full manufacturing I can survive for a while but then fall behind on science and if I mix in science to get mining bonuses then I cant seem to build up my military big enough to keep the AI off my back until my planets are strong enough.

I play on a medium map with no changes asides from turning pirates off. I dont like getting unfair advantages to win.

[jonnin]

-rush to a market government and buy resources
- be nice and make friends and trade for resources
-be yorself and capture planets from AI instead.
-colonize only 1 per planet
- take all the free colony ships you can get (usually, 2-3 .. one from bene ideology, one from early game event) and send those to the planet, leave with 1 pop, use extra pop for another colony...

-yor are poorly designed. Make a better robot race?

[RAZIEL]

Thanks for the advice, most of that I already do or can't do with the type of game I'm trying to pull off.I know the yor are poorly designed and I can lower the stats they dont need for better ones but I'm trying to play the standard races up to godlike tier.

Right now I'm also trying to play the game a bit more similar to the lore of each race so I dont want to get too heavy into income with the yor. I want to exterminate everyone in the universe and I cant touch the benevolent tree. Also the yor does not have a lot of raw income buildings, only enough to survive.

I'm currently in a new games and its working out but could change at any moment. I was only able to grab 2 planets (bad luck) and I have 4 engineers on my home and added 4 scientists (trying to learn from previous games). 4 consulates beside each other for just enough income to keep me afloat then everything else is 100% manufacturing. I trade all my known teach with every race every few turns to keep up in science and I'm being a bully for new resources. Haven't tried taking any planets from the AI yet. Just trying to keep my science up and snag as much promethion and durantium as I can during times of war. Going to try to spread out and just swallow everything weak and close to or within my borders.

[starship_trooper]

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

Thanks for the advice, most of that I already do or can't do with the type of game I'm trying to pull off.I know the yor are poorly designed and I can lower the stats they dont need for better ones but I'm trying to play the standard races up to godlike tier.

Kudos to you. On Genius and below it's no problem at all, but if you want to win on Incredible or Godlike with a stock (non-Xenophobic, non-Ancient) race, you must REALLY know what you're doing and exploit the game mechanics to the fullest.

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

I'm currently in a new games and its working out but could change at any moment. I was only able to grab 2 planets (bad luck) and I have 4 engineers on my home and added 4 scientists (trying to learn from previous games).

Perfectly fine. It's absolutely viable to play a tall civ in GC3, but you have to learn focusing:
- assign all your asteroid mines to your HW
- assign all your Scientists, Workers and Engineers to your HW. Celebrities on demand. No Leaders of course as long as you are tall.
- get your HW to max pop ASAP (cities)
- assign all your economy-boosting government ships and mercs to your HW
- most importantly: surround your HW with econ starbases ASAP. Retribution reduced the minimum starbase distance from 5 to 3, so this is easier than ever before.

If you stick to this, you will rather soon have a homeworld that out-produces and out-researches whole AI empires. Seriously, if you do not have at least a dozen econ starbases up around your HW at turn 100, you're playing it wrong (with at least the first 2 construction and money improvements on each one).

Once you can field invincible fleets (very easy now, concentrate on defenses and fleet modules), you can conquer any number of planets you want and go wide.

I keep preaching this stuff on the steam and Stardock forums for years now, but hardly anyone seems to listen, LOL.

[RAZIEL]

Originally posted by starship_trooper:

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

Thanks for the advice, most of that I already do or can't do with the type of game I'm trying to pull off.I know the yor are poorly designed and I can lower the stats they dont need for better ones but I'm trying to play the standard races up to godlike tier.

Kudos to you. On Genius and below it's no problem at all, but if you want to win on Incredible or Godlike with a stock (non-Xenophobic, non-Ancient) race, you must REALLY know what you're doing and exploit the game mechanics to the fullest.

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

I'm currently in a new games and its working out but could change at any moment. I was only able to grab 2 planets (bad luck) and I have 4 engineers on my home and added 4 scientists (trying to learn from previous games).

Perfectly fine. It's absolutely viable to play a tall civ in GC3, but you have to learn focusing:
- assign all your asteroid mines to your HW
- assign all your Scientists, Workers and Engineers to your HW. Celebrities on demand. No Leaders of course as long as you are tall.
- get your HW to max pop ASAP (cities)
- assign all your economy-boosting government ships and mercs to your HW
- most importantly: surround your HW with econ starbases ASAP. Retribution reduced the minimum starbase distance from 5 to 3, so this is easier than ever before.

If you stick to this, you will rather soon have a homeworld that out-produces and out-researches whole AI empires. Seriously, if you do not have at least a dozen econ starbases up around your HW at turn 100, you're playing it wrong (with at least the first 2 construction and money improvements on each one).

Once you can field invincible fleets (very easy now, concentrate on defenses and fleet modules), you can conquer any number of planets you want and go wide.

I keep preaching this stuff on the steam and Stardock forums for years now, but hardly anyone seems to listen, LOL.

That's some really solid advice. I've never tried surrounding with starbases because I end up building even my most advanced ships in 1 turn with only 1 economic sb, but with that tactic I can probably put more tiles into science buildings and possibly keep up. But if you dont assign asteroid fields to other planets how do you get any construction done on them. I'm usually able to have all my other planets almost built by the time I have my homeworld population maxed out due to asteroid fields and going full manufacturing on them until my home world is built up, then I switch some over to science.

[starship_trooper]

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

That's some really solid advice. I've never tried surrounding with starbases because I end up building even my most advanced ships in 1 turn with only 1 economic sb, but with that tactic I can probably put more tiles into science buildings and possibly keep up.

Yes! Once you can build all improvements and ships in 1 turn and have a lot of production stored on planet and shipyard it's probably a good idea to switch some hexes to research. Just keep in mind that the most expensive planet improvement is Recruit Citizen at 2500 manufacturing points.

Originally posted by RAZIEL:

But if you dont assign asteroid fields to other planets how do you get any construction done on them. I'm usually able to have all my other planets almost built by the time I have my homeworld population maxed out due to asteroid fields and going full manufacturing on them until my home world is built up, then I switch some over to science.

I wrote that mostly to get the point across, it's of course not cast in stone (I also keep many asteroid mines assigned to colonies in my games). But keep in mind that by default asteroids should go to the homeworld, if they are not too far away. Since switching them has no cost and is instant, you can assign worthwile asteroids to your HW once the colony has enough production on its own.

It's just important to understand that each point of Raw Production (which the mines provide) is much more valuable at your "focus point" (where all the citizens, econ starbases etc. are) than anywhere else. This difference can be huge - more than an order of magnitude.

[Charlando[SunsOfStmChrts]]

Originally posted by starship_trooper:

Perfectly fine. It's absolutely viable to play a tall civ in GC3, but you have to learn focusing:
- assign all your asteroid mines to your HW
- assign all your Scientists, Workers and Engineers to your HW. Celebrities on demand. No Leaders of course as long as you are tall.
- get your HW to max pop ASAP (cities)
- assign all your economy-boosting government ships and mercs to your HW
- most importantly: surround your HW with econ starbases ASAP. Retribution reduced the minimum starbase distance from 5 to 3, so this is easier than ever before.

If you stick to this, you will rather soon have a homeworld that out-produces and out-researches whole AI empires. Seriously, if you do not have at least a dozen econ starbases up around your HW at turn 100, you're playing it wrong (with at least the first 2 construction and money improvements on each one).

I assume in doing this that one would still have several satellite/periphery planets for trade resources,artifacts, and if nothing else to deny them from other factions?( I generally end up playing a tall/wide hybrid strategy where I have my homeworld and a few core planets that greatly outproduce every other colony but I still have several satellite planets)

What traits and abilities do you recommend for playing tall? I'm guessing traits that boost ship stats and soldiering since empire-wide planetary bonuses will have minimal impact.

[starship_trooper]

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

I assume in doing this that one would still have several satellite/periphery planets for trade resources,artifacts, and if nothing else to deny them from other factions?( I generally end up playing a tall/wide hybrid strategy where I have my homeworld and a few core planets that greatly outproduce every other colony but I still have several satellite planets)

I sometimes roleplay a one-planet civ (works surprisingly well), but when I don't, I play the same strategy as you do. The advice I gave was geared towards RAZIEL's problems with playing that Yor game. I just found that going tall HW in the beginning of the game (the first 150 - 200 turns or so) is by far the best starting strategy. And as I mentioned earlier, once you have consolidated your position, you can always spread out and go more wide. Apart from the government colony limit, additional planets have no disadvantages, only benefits. So more is always better.

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

What traits and abilities do you recommend for playing tall? I'm guessing traits that boost ship stats and soldiering since empire-wide planetary bonuses will have minimal impact.

Traits (empire-wide traits are fine, since they boost your game start which is very important):
- ship production (always useful and a must if you are Xenophobic)
- tourism (ridiculously OP now, makes you rich automatically once you have a lot of influence)
- dense (+capacity, always useful)
- fast (+ship speed, a must have, I almost always pick it)
- content (+morale, always useful)

Abilities:
- Xenophobic and Ancient are the two extremely OP ones, they are the best for pretty much any strategy
- Scavengers, Time Travelers and Vigilant IMO are the "tier 2" abilities, very strong but not as OP, they require a good knowledge of the game mechanics though and adaptation of playstyle
- Engineers is very useful if you play strictly tall, since it increases your asteroid production
- Divine Guardian should also be useful for tall, due to the bonuses that starting ship gives to your planet

[Charlando[SunsOfStmChrts]]

Originally posted by starship_trooper:

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

I assume in doing this that one would still have several satellite/periphery planets for trade resources,artifacts, and if nothing else to deny them from other factions?( I generally end up playing a tall/wide hybrid strategy where I have my homeworld and a few core planets that greatly outproduce every other colony but I still have several satellite planets)

I sometimes roleplay a one-planet civ (works surprisingly well), but when I don't, I play the same strategy as you do. The advice I gave was geared towards RAZIEL's problems with playing that Yor game. I just found that going tall HW in the beginning of the game (the first 150 - 200 turns or so) is by far the best starting strategy. And as I mentioned earlier, once you have consolidated your position, you can always spread out and go more wide. Apart from the government colony limit, additional planets have no disadvantages, only benefits. So more is always better.

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

What traits and abilities do you recommend for playing tall? I'm guessing traits that boost ship stats and soldiering since empire-wide planetary bonuses will have minimal impact.

Traits (empire-wide traits are fine, since they boost your game start which is very important):
- ship production (always useful and a must if you are Xenophobic)
- tourism (ridiculously OP now, makes you rich automatically once you have a lot of influence)
- dense (+capacity, always useful)
- fast (+ship speed, a must have, I almost always pick it)
- content (+morale, always useful)

Abilities:
- Xenophobic and Ancient are the two extremely OP ones, they are the best for pretty much any strategy
- Scavengers, Time Travelers and Vigilant IMO are the "tier 2" abilities, very strong but not as OP, they require a good knowledge of the game mechanics though and adaptation of playstyle
- Engineers is very useful if you play strictly tall, since it increases your asteroid production
- Divine Guardian should also be useful for tall, due to the bonuses that starting ship gives to your planet

Great points. Building upon this,

Aquatic gives you 3 terraform-any-tile projects, one per player each. The downside to aquatic is that they need extreme colonization for corrosive planets and they cant build the hyperlane speed wonder or brindles obersavtory. Combined with Ancient and you get extra 4 terraforming projects to raise the population cap of your homeworld.(Unfortunately, sometimes you roll a ♥♥♥♥ sandwhich with your homeworld not having any space for the tier 1 terraforming projects like soil enrichment)

If you are Xenophobic an you plan to have 1 super-planet, you can nullify the shipbuilding penalty with 2 engineers or a strategic command. You can stack that on top of the bonuses from traits and government benefits.

[starship_trooper]

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

Unfortunately, sometimes you roll a ♥♥♥♥ sandwhich with your homeworld not having any space for the tier 1 terraforming projects like soil enrichment

True, but you can avoid this by choosing a good HW for your custom race. The Iconian one (single class 16) is the best one IMO. It has one huge continent and a small one, with it it never happened to me that I couldn't terraform.

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

If you are Xenophobic an you plan to have 1 super-planet, you can nullify the shipbuilding penalty with 2 engineers or a strategic command. You can stack that on top of the bonuses from traits and government benefits.

Yes, what you mentioned are exactly the reasons why it is so easy to negate Xeno's ship production penalty. They should have just doubled all ship manufacturing costs for them instead, then the penalty would really be a permanent penalty.

[Charlando[SunsOfStmChrts]]

Originally posted by starship_trooper:

I've tried out Xenophobic(Isolationist) + Ancient in a few games, and HOLY ♥♥♥♥ its powerful. Depending on the pacing, one can rip through entire branches of the tech tree in a single turn, and later in the game new colonies produce minimum 100-200 research on new colonies with nothing but a colony capital. Im guessing its also the best wide civ strategy especially with the benevolent colonizers trait.

I think this will be my goto when I want to try bumping up to a new difficulty level.

[starship_trooper]

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

I've tried out Xenophobic(Isolationist) + Ancient in a few games, and HOLY ♥♥♥♥ its powerful. Depending on the pacing, one can rip through entire branches of the tech tree in a single turn, and later in the game new colonies produce minimum 100-200 research on new colonies with nothing but a colony capital. Im guessing its also the best wide civ strategy especially with the benevolent colonizers trait.

Yes, Xeno and Ancient (also Aquatic and Slavers) are particularly effective for wide empires.

Xeno especially enables you to set up a massive economy in no time. In my last game on Incredible (Ancient Xenophobes) I occupied more than half of the power graph by turn 200. Imagine that!

Originally posted by CharlandoSunsOfStmChrts:

I think this will be my goto when I want to try bumping up to a new difficulty level.

I would suggest anyone for his first Incredible game to go with an Aquatic Ancient Xenophobes custom race. Just to avoid frustration (AI ships on Incredible start with a speed of 18).