Economy help needed (v3.0+)

[Csupasz Pisztoly]

Hi!


In the past, i had no problem with the economy in this game. More farms -> more people -> win.

After some downtime, i started a couple games in normal diff. when 3.0 released, so the new food system was a new think to me.

In my first game, i got 4 planets, none of them had arrable land, so i had issues...

In the following games, i get planets with arrable land, but i had other problems. When i start to expand, the monthly income goes to -5..-25 / turn and that's quite hard to cuonter in early game.

The food situation are also bad. Building farms took some time, but building a city took 10..25 turns, depending on planet so that make things even worse.

My problems basicly:
-there are less build space on the planets than the "good old times"
-farm + city took too much time to build
-i had no spare money to rush anything

Because of these issues, i'm starting to lag behind all other civs after the early game...


So i need some recommendations about the economy.

[Quevik]

I might be able to help a little though I'm not an expert on this game by any means. I'm 150 turns into my game atm (on very slow research and production settings) and I am still losing gold per turn, though i've never really been in danger of bankruptcy yet. I offset it by other means.

Anyway, things that i've found to be helpful early game.

1) If you use a custom civ, pick +2 morale option. Higher morale allows you to start with a higher tax rate, reducing the burden on your early game. The bonuses to tourism income also help a great deal as well.

2) Adjust your tax rate as high as you can while still keeping morale at 100. For early game with the +2 morale, this seemed to be about 40%.

3) The tech that gives universal translator gives access to tourism, the import export impodium (1% tourism boost) and a wonder that gives 3% tourism boost. I'd try to grab this tech and both these buildings as fast as possible. That 3% tourism bonus really helps early game as tourism is your main source of income now.

4) If you want to cheat, you can build as many import export impodiums as you want. This is a bug as it's listed as one per person but allows infinite. I don't recommend this as it's cheating and will be changed eventually.

5) While the AI is seriously stupid about some things (Such as offering 175 credits for 87 durantium), they pay premium for resources they do not have at all. If you have a helios ore and your neighbor does not, you can usually get around 200 credits for 1. The value of each after goes down considerably though. This is harder to do really early, you probibly don't have it improved yet, but helps as you go.

Edit: oh, and one more thing. The maintainence costs of ships are bugged atm. They display 0 no matter their actual costs (Even though you're still paying for them). Those starter missiles, for example, cost 1 per weapon, though the ships show no cost. Be careful you're not spending more on ships than you realize.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by Csupasz Pisztoly:

In my first game, i got 4 planets, none of them had arrable land, so i had issues...

Farms are not a requirement for winning. I've won games without making a single farm. Cities + Farms are what I'd call "nice to have" improvements after you get about halfway into a game. Halfway through Age of War, if you have the resources, start building them. But they're not mandatory.

Originally posted by Csupasz Pisztoly:

In the following games, i get planets with arrable land, but i had other problems. When i start to expand, the monthly income goes to -5..-25 / turn and that's quite hard to cuonter in early game.

For the first 100 turns or so, your main source of income is going to be Survey ships and anomalies. It's the best source of income. But once you unlock Tourism and start putting a Por of Call on every planet, then your cash flow will change considerably. You'll be rolling it in by the end of the game.

I put this screenshot in another thread today and I think it's worth looking at. This is endgame. Turn 211. My taxation is maxed, my Moral is almost maxed, and I'm rolling in cash.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367828758

This is the power of Tourism. Not cities, not farms, Tourism.

Originally posted by Csupasz Pisztoly:

The food situation are also bad. Building farms took some time, but building a city took 10..25 turns, depending on planet so that make things even worse.

Food is not a prerequesite to winning. Your major problem right now is that you haven't adapted to the changed mechanics of the game; you still think it plays like the old version. It doesn't not. You're going to have to have a paradigm shift here man. It's a different game now.

Check my screen shot again: I have 92 food. At the end of the game. I have cities on most planets by that time. Food tech can be researched - there is a whole tree in the game for food tech. But you have to understand one thing: this stuff takes time. You no longer get tons of food and cities right out of the gate. It takes time to build and grow your empire with food and cities.

In the meantime, you should be researching Tourism, putting down Port of Call on every world and spreading your influence so your Tourism maxes its ROI.

My problems basicly:
-there are less build space on the planets than the "good old times"

The space is the same. But instead of building farms on a blank tile, we now can only build them on an arable land tile. The tile numbers are the same.

-farm + city took too much time to build

No,you just want them too fast. The game is really well balanced with farms and cities. First, understand you do NOT need a population larger than 3B on any planet to win the game, at least on Normal difficulty. You'll get enough production out of the 3B cap.

-i had no spare money to rush anything

The only rushing I do (and can do, early in the game) is to rush the first shipyard, first colony ship and then the Eyes of the Universe. After that money is tight for the first 100 turns or so and my Survey ships bring in the bulk of income. But that's just until Tourism kicks in.

Once it does, as you can see from my screen shot... I had money to burn. And I did... I spent all kinds of money on fancy ships from the bazaar, rushing stuff, etc.

Because of these issues, i'm starting to lag behind all other civs after the early game...

You're just not adapted to the new game yet.

Check out my Let's Play series. I walk through all of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhGIM-nDLLw

[Csupasz Pisztoly]

Thank you guys, i will try the suggestions. First of all, i think i'm not realy doing enough survaying.

[Quevik]

Colorsfade. Does building a port of call on other worlds besides your capital do anything? My planets never have tourism icons outside of my capital so i though it was the only one that could get tourism in intrigue/3.0.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by Quevik:

Colorsfade. Does building a port of call on other worlds besides your capital do anything? My planets never have tourism icons outside of my capital so i though it was the only one that could get tourism in intrigue/3.0.

The "Tourism Icon" is because the planet gives a bonus to Tourism - not because of the building. It's like a Ghost World that gives +% to Research.

Port of Call is one per planet, and it adds to Tourism Income. If you give it an adjacency bonus (like with Missionary Center) it also gives a +% to Wealth.

You definitely want one on every planet once you enable Tourism.

[Quevik]

Thanks colorsFade. I actually started playing after i asked and built some. I thought the changes made it so that only the capital gave tourism. I guess only the capital does without a building but all can with a building.

Thanks so much for mentioning that on this thread. It's alot easier to have a positive budget now.

[ColorsFade]

Originally posted by Quevik:

Thanks colorsFade. I actually started playing after i asked and built some. I thought the changes made it so that only the capital gave tourism. I guess only the capital does without a building but all can with a building.

Thanks so much for mentioning that on this thread. It's alot easier to have a positive budget now.

You're welcome.

It used to be that Trade was the big earner - the best way to earn lots of money - certainly before Crusade. But my issue with trade was how volatile it was; if a faction decided to declare war on you, any trade routes with them got cancelled and a whole bunch of income would go disappear. You'd then be trying to kick trade ships out of your Shipyards (when you really needed to be building war ships) and get them to friendlier factions during a time of war - often getting sniped before they could reach their destination.

It was for all of those reasons that I recommended Tourism in my Tips and Tricks guide, even when Trade was a bigger earner. Tourism earns all the time, even during war.

Before Crusade, if I was diligent, I could earn almost as much money with Tourism as with Trade.

Now, after Intrigue, the game is setup so Tourism is the big earner. Which made me happy, since I have always been primarily a Tourism player.

But it's been slow for other people to get on this bus

[Csupasz Pisztoly]

I'm now at turn 55.

-i built Paxton's emporium on Earth, and that produces 31 turism money with an import-export center. My total income on Earth are 117,8 with 5 pops, but i will be able to rise income even further with a city.

-i have 5 other planets, but they are barley produces any money. Tax rate are at 25%, while hapinnes is more than 80% on all of them. I did not have port of call tech yet, i'm working on it.

-doing more survaying did helped a lot. Thanx for the tip.

-i'm still the last in militiary power. AI civs got 25-30 ships while i do only have 5. I'm actualy quite bad at manufacturing... I will build a third shipyard, that may help.

-i'm also the last in research capacity... But i have more tech than any other civs. I have many mined resources, i traded some of them for money or techs.

[Csupasz Pisztoly]

Since all five of my colonies got upgraded colony building and some tech, now my gross income are +1.5... It was tough. :)

I still don't have port of call, but before then, i will conqure 3..5 more planets.

Also, i was able to hire good mercenaryies, so now i'm the first in militiary. LOL.

[ColorsFade]

Another screen shot of what's possible with Tourism.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1368962203

This is turn 130 of my current game. I had Tourism up and running with Port of Call on a couple planets by turn 80.

This is a 12 Faction-map. I set the AI so my opponents were 1/3rd Normal, 1/3rd Gifted and 1/3rd Genius.

I have 14 colonies. 92% Moral, 100% taxation and I have two more colonies than my Government prefers. $500+ per turn in income.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1368962048

I'm 5th in Production, 6th in Research and 3rd in Military.

Tourism FTW.

[nemodomi]

Utterly newb "aside" question:

Originally posted by ColorsFade:

I set the AI so my opponents were 1/3rd Normal, 1/3rd Gifted and 1/3rd Genius.

How do you do this?

[Quevik]

You can manually adjust a civ's difficulty on the opponent select screen.

[nemodomi]

Originally posted by Quevik:

You can manually adjust a civ's difficulty on the opponent select screen.

Thank you Quevik! I haven't even gotten that far into the game yet, so far "only" studying forums and Web pages and watching YouTube videos; I do remember seeing the opponent screen in one of the videos, but (obviously) failed to notice the individual difficulty options.

[Quevik]

@nemodomi Yeah, this game can be complicated to get into. Well worth it imo. You got any questions, just ask them on here. :)

[nemodomi]

Originally posted by Quevik:

@nemodomi Yeah, this game can be complicated to get into. Well worth it imo. You got any questions, just ask them on here. :)

Belated thanks, Quevik!