Another game and notable issue with AoW 3 balance

[revjwh]

I realize this is "going to be addressed" but it is still infuriating and horrific programming on the Devs part. Dwarven Dreadnought - no way to terraform for happiness since I took Fire domain and can't raise mountains. So, yep, Age of Deception and my Empire goes from content/happy in most cities to rebelling - even though I'm not at war with the rogue, in fact she was my main ally and attacking my main enemy .......

Why not release a quick fix that makes this her domain only ? or against only her enemies?

Further, the Warbreeds are hideous (not even the top tier unit); they regenerate 20-25 hp per combat round..... that is simply sickening - like a free heal spell on every one each round. Meanwhile the Dreadnought got nerfed with most units firing every other round and unable to heal most units. It's pathetic how weak the Dreadnought is against many other combos.

AoW3 is a game that I love many many things about and it sucks me in the beginning game and mid game but then it seems huge cracks appear in its balance.... with some classes (Warlord, Rogue, Sorcerer) far outclassing other classes/races in my opinion.

I know many will disagree - but wanted to offer thoughts after I watched yet another game as a Dwarven Dreadnought fall apart due to Age of Deception (cast by my main ally while I was at war with 2 other AIs ........ )

[Gloweye]

"Why not release a quick fix that makes this her domain only ? or against only her enemies?"

You're right, it's already being fixed. Nice, eh?

"Meanwhile the Dreadnought got nerfed with most units firing every other round and unable to heal most units. It's pathetic how weak the Dreadnought is against many other combos."

That was already the case. Also Dread is very strong against many other combo's - most notably, machines are immune to the main damage types aside from physical that are used by Rogue and Theocrat.

"Further, the Warbreeds are hideous (not even the top tier unit); they regenerate 20-25 hp per combat round..... that is simply sickening - like a free heal spell on every one each round."

Nope, they're finally useful. They used to be just a kind of worse Phalanx. Also, they kind of got the short end of the bat because they don't benefit from mystical city upgrades.

Also, while pretty strong, Age of Deception is only -400. If that drives your units to rebellion, you're doing some things wrong anyway. Stay offensive, as gaining a city gives +150 Empire happiness for 10 turns, and having (and maintaining) 1000+ gold gives another 100. As a Dreadnought, you have access to a powerful spell called Supress Nature. This flat out removes terrain penalties, so combined with the two above, this gives your units a bare minimum morale of -150 - even out of fumble range, let alone desertion. Your cities are safe, though happenstance mountains and treasure sites can boost it up, even more with maybe some Public Baths.

[Jimib4158]

I soooo want a raise and lower terrain spell. ;/ no one else seems to care but us revj :/

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by tanktop4158:

I soooo want a raise and lower terrain spell. ;/ no one else seems to care but us revj :/

They wont add it.
Too much pixie dust and pixie dust isnt cheap.
Beside mountains are no longer untraverable.

Pity i love turning land into sea, sea land, land into hill and hills into mountains.

[Jimib4158]

yea they usually block the land to sea one....still raising and lowering moutains would be fun eh?...def make my dwarves happier :)

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by tanktop4158:

yea they usually block the land to sea one....still raising and lowering moutains would be fun eh?...def make my dwarves happier :)

I miss wetlands the most.
Turning the entire map into water encourged fleet warfair.
Ofcourse back then you accauly wanted to sink there transports.
Nothing screams screw you like having your entire army drown because of bad luck.
Or remember that age of wonders 1 spell:
Whirlwind i believe it was called.
Bye bye fleet.

Memories:
Age of wonders 2 wizard throne water sphere 1.
Turn the entire map into a sea.
Age of wonders 2 shadow magic.
Nomad campaign water wizard.
Turning deserts into green fields before turning them into seas.
So much fun denying everyone the ability to move without ships or water walking units.
Good memories.
I like age of wonders 3 but i do miss spells like that.
Spells that really screw with the enemy/map.

[BBB]

Wetlands is alreadya spell iirc...

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by BBB:

Wetlands is alreadya spell iirc...

The wetlands version in age of wonders 3 is pathetic.
It doesnt raise the sea levels in the slightest.

[Jeined]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Beside mountains are no longer untraverable.

By the way, this is a reason why this spell should be much more balanced now (and less sense in removing it).

[revjwh]

Originally posted by jaccovandorp:

"Why not release a quick fix that makes this her domain only ? or against only her enemies?"

You're right, it's already being fixed. Nice, eh?

"Meanwhile the Dreadnought got nerfed with most units firing every other round and unable to heal most units. It's pathetic how weak the Dreadnought is against many other combos."

That was already the case. Also Dread is very strong against many other combo's - most notably, machines are immune to the main damage types aside from physical that are used by Rogue and Theocrat.

"Further, the Warbreeds are hideous (not even the top tier unit); they regenerate 20-25 hp per combat round..... that is simply sickening - like a free heal spell on every one each round."

Nope, they're finally useful. They used to be just a kind of worse Phalanx. Also, they kind of got the short end of the bat because they don't benefit from mystical city upgrades.

Also, while pretty strong, Age of Deception is only -400. If that drives your units to rebellion, you're doing some things wrong anyway. Stay offensive, as gaining a city gives +150 Empire happiness for 10 turns, and having (and maintaining) 1000+ gold gives another 100. As a Dreadnought, you have access to a powerful spell called Supress Nature. This flat out removes terrain penalties, so combined with the two above, this gives your units a bare minimum morale of -150 - even out of fumble range, let alone desertion. Your cities are safe, though happenstance mountains and treasure sites can boost it up, even more with maybe some Public Baths.

Actually, I had hospitals in every city. I had Supress Nature running. However, I had a dearth of mountains (only thing that raises morale for Dwarves) and terraform is useless for them. So unless I was constantly taking cities - it didn't take much to undermine morale.

Enemy at the gates, a city taken in the back and forth and then AoD and most started being very unhappy.

Further, to have musketeers that fire every other round, machines that don't heal unless you can afford to have a master's guild (high level city upgrade) in the city..... defense is far harder as well (flame tank is nice but hard to produce en masse while tons of mid-level units roam the map and you have to keep up with fighting them).

I think the Dreadnought is significantly weaker than almost any other class. Even their top tier spells hurt them as much as anyone else on the battle map. If you have musketeers etc you can't cast the top tier without decimating your own forces.

I watched as the Rogue AI fought another Dreadnought and literally watched:

A stack of a hero, flame tank, two golems, a cannon and a first born get stomped by 3 Shadow Stalkers, two succubi and a hero..... something is wrong in my opinion with that set up.

That is one example but a multi-stack battle consisting of four dreadnoughts, multiple cannon, golem and first born lost to a numerically equal stack of Stalkers and Succubi.....

With Iron Grip - the Rogue has constant good morale which snowballs into high money, festivals and so many bonuses it is impossible to lose in my opinion (at least on SP).

[Gloweye]

Actually, I had hospitals in every city. I had Supress Nature running. However, I had a dearth of mountains (only thing that raises morale for Dwarves) and terraform is useless for them. So unless I was constantly taking cities - it didn't take much to undermine morale.

Enemy at the gates, a city taken in the back and forth and then AoD and most started being very unhappy.

Is there ever a reason to stop taking cities? If you're up against a rogue, you have to stay offensive. A Rogue can take cities, but cannot keep them. Also, if there's an enemy at the gates, kill it.

Further, to have musketeers that fire every other round, machines that don't heal unless you can afford to have a master's guild (high level city upgrade) in the city..... defense is far harder as well (flame tank is nice but hard to produce en masse while tons of mid-level units roam the map and you have to keep up with fighting them).

Defense isn't be easy against the rogue. Catch his armies in the field if you can.

I think the Dreadnought is significantly weaker than almost any other class. Even their top tier spells hurt them as much as anyone else on the battle map. If you have musketeers etc you can't cast the top tier without decimating your own forces.

Mana Core is a spell that's a bit specialized in it's use...lets just say that it doesn't work against succubi(60% fire resist), so maybe you should shift your focus a bit. If you see him coming, go dragon oil - it really hurts the stalkers. Add in flame tanks against stalkers, and golems against succubi. Juggernauts can help against both, but tend to get wrecked when between the walls and the enemy, so they are of lesser use here.

I watched as the Rogue AI fought another Dreadnought and literally watched:

A stack of a hero, flame tank, two golems, a cannon and a first born get stomped by 3 Shadow Stalkers, two succubi and a hero..... something is wrong in my opinion with that set up.

That's two stacks of hero + 5 T3. Don't see what's wrong with the guy in incorporeal T3's winning.

That is one example but a multi-stack battle consisting of four dreadnoughts, multiple cannon, golem and first born lost to a numerically equal stack of Stalkers and Succubi....

.

Still all T3's. As a Dread, your gold income is much higher than that of a rogue, and you get up to 2 discounts. Also, you can build all your units with 2 medals(3 on musketeers), while the rogue can only get 1 on both of his T3's.

With Iron Grip - the Rogue has constant good morale which snowballs into high money, festivals and so many bonuses it is impossible to lose in my opinion (at least on SP).

And it costs 20 Mana per city per turn - the same as your Mana Fuel Cells. You know how expensive this feels, right?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually agree that the game could use raise/lower terrain - probably as part of the Terraform Spell (or one that requires it). For the rest, use flame tanks against stalkers(groups of 3 should work find most of the time. Then you can toast them all in a single round.), juggernauts/golems are better for succubi. Don't bother with cannons - a rogue will usually close the distance pretty quickly.