Build Order, Research Order?

[PaleEnchantress]

What are some of the things, buildings, spells you aim for getting early and mid game with each class? Whether it's against players or the AI (And really i play against the AI mostly) I think one of my problems is I'm too unfocused, or focused too much on getting to an end game point.

I just got done with a game as a sorcerer. I thought my apprentices would give me a strong city defense and harassment, but I guess I needed the talent that makes them stun. I guess I didn't realize that and was trying to get to my Arcane Horror. I didn't even have any good attack spells.

This isn't just about sorcerer but it is typical of where my problems come in. I think its just taking me too long to get my empire to where I have power and its probably because I don't know the different plateaus to go for.

Also, different note. I know the kind of playstyle I like and I'm not sure what race, class, and specializations offer it. First I like being defensive rather than offensive, but not really in the sense of "I have a high defense stat and low attack stat". I mean having a strong position and economy in my own territory. And from that strong defensive position Id like to use mostly magic to harass and weaken others rather then engage them directly. Think the AOW equivalent of a "controller" type spell-caster in traditional RPG's. Its now that they tank, its just you cant get to them, and while they don't do a lot of damage their buffs, debuffs, and control powers will wear you down. Its a very subversive style, like your not really playing the same game of "hit them harder then they hit me" that everyone else does.
I know in AOW defensive playstyle requires a degree of efficiency. You cant just mass city defense since units guarding a city are units that are costing upkeep and bringing in nothing. Just wondering peoples take on this. I was thinking sorcerer is pretty close there but perhaps there are other good options. Cant see myself liking warlord much.

[K2]

I think you put your issue there well: defensive playstyle

AoW unfortunatly only allows for an offensive/expansive playstyle by design. Whenever I try to explain the game to friends, I try to make it very clear AoW is no CiV or similar games, but at it's core a war game.
To be succesful in AoW, you need to expand quickly and be aggressive. Your advantage will snowball pretty much, since there are essentially no downsides to expanding (other then more territory/cities to defend)

If you want to have a more defensive game, you can try the following though:
instead of pressuring on AI, you can try to go the vassal route. Travel around early and try to befriend or capture all neurtral settlements (possibly also increase the number in settings), then focus on clearing resource spots (if you haven't already) and turtling your city defense and production up (potentially all the way to grand palaces). From then on you have a much better position to actually fight the AIs, harass them as you like and see where it leads. Potentially also try to befriend/ally some AIs and let them do the dirty work.

Lastly regarding the gold costs for defenders:
It's best to have low-tier defenders imho. I mostly use a single stack of mixed-element ranged T1 or T2 units for defense against AI and combined with manual battle, battle and city defense spells it can hold off most threats, depending on the enemies 1-2 melee units may help as well (put behind ranged to protect vs flying or at door to protect door). In worst cases with enough casting points you can also quickly summon something to help out if you see enemies approaching.
In early game less units suffice. I usually start out with 0 (and watch map closely) until walls are built, then start stocking with 2-3 units, 4 units, and finally 6 units at endgame. Also T1 / T2 are relatively cheap in terms of maintenance costs. Using class synergies for defenders can also go a long way. Theocrat/Necro support units are amazing, since they can all heal each other with the appropinate research.

If you have upgraded cities it should not be a problem to pay for the units. Some classes make it much easier of course, like warlord (-25% upkeep) or other utils (tigerian: 5 gold per city, gray guard master 5 gold per city)

[BBB]

"AoW unfortunatly only allows for an offensive/expansive playstyle by design."

Not true. What the OP is asking for is actually not only possible but can even be easy.

You just need to use your brain.

I would recommend Dreadnought with a spec like wild magic or fire, relying on musketeers and machines to defend (they are good at it) and when you are ready you roll out your machine stacks and obliterate the enemy.

Wild magic will let you degenerate etc your enemy, and will eventually give you summon lesser elemental, whihc will give you some very useful troops that use mana and casting points, so you get the best of both worlds.


If you pick Keeper mastery, you can expand via independent cities faster, and eventually unlock Angels.


ShadowBorn mastery will give you cheaper Pikes, Cavalry and Infantry (adept) so if you want to focus on racial units, that is awesome.

Grey Guard lets you get Cthonic Guardians (neutral Angels) and is useful all round.


All of the 3 aforementioned Angels are t4 units, and fly. They are incredible.

If you go Human Dreadnought, you have solid Knights to help in field battles, tying up the enemy while your machines kill from ranged, and you start with extra production whihc helps quite nicely.


Or, go Dwarf Dread and start Underground, whihc is easier to defend, build your forces up and then unleash them.



Now, NB defend here is used in the true sense of the word, which is to entice your enemy into attacking on your terms. It is not used in the all too often lazy manner known as "turtling". True turtling is effective, but when people complain, like the guy before me, that AoW doesn;t allow this, that's because what most people call turtling is simply this:


sit on my arse and hope the other guy ignores me and when I am ready I'll atack.


Well no war ever was ever won like that.


When I say defend, you are going to need a mobile defending stack (I like Cavalry for this) that can move to your cities to aid their (in my games, usually minimal) garrisons.

You are also going to need to scout aggessively, to see which vectors your enemy is using to approach.


It is entirely possible to bait your enemy, then destroy them defensively, and grind them down (harder against Emperors, but it can be done). Remember, defence is the planning of an attack.


back to specs:


If you are going defensively - wild magic, keeper, grey guard, shadowborn to enable you to get summons.


Fire adept for hellhounds and fireball (a nuke spell, which Dreadnought lacks). Mastery for Fire elementals and the almighty hellfire (combine with massed Flametanks for lols)

Air adept for seeker (so your ranged troops become even deadlier) and zephyr birds (best scout in the game)


Water mastery for great hail and healing showers.


Earth Mastery for the Earth Elemental (this guy is a brute)



Onto racial choices:


I mentioned Humans, as they give you a decent all round spread, and Dwarves as they are tough in general, and can really milk the Underground.


Any race will work though, but if you are playing Dread, you usually want an armoured race, as there are some nice synergies with armour.



Anyway, the above basic strategy works best with Dreads imho, but can also work very well with Warlords, as what you do there is mass Berserkers instead of Cavalry, and then Monster Hunters to dominate the waves, then phase out your Berserkers with Horse Archers as very mobile city defence.


Tech to warbreeds, and with death march, you can defend nearly the entirety of your empire, enter a fight, and heal your Warbreeds. It's awesome. If you scout the eenmy out, you can also death march to their undefended cities (deathamrched Warbreeds will have 72 mp!) and heal while you fight. Outrageous.


And you get cheaper troops and a good economy.


If the game goes to manticores, then you are in a storng position as they can outmanouvre almost any other T4 unit. Just avoid Reapers and Stalkers if you can.



You may also want to pick Destruction, in order to get hasty plunder, which will let you ruin players' economies.

[K2]

Originally posted by BBB:

"AoW unfortunatly only allows for an offensive/expansive playstyle by design."

Not true. What the OP is asking for is actually not only possible but can even be easy.

You just need to use your brain.

Quick reality check:
Expanding: More mana, more gold, more research, more production slots, with GP more casting points, possibly new races, higher mana cap....
Not expanding: Not growing beyond of your initial city. Limiting yourself in all the factors above.

Is is so bad that is probably the largest pitfall of AoW. You snowball so badly that a game becomes trival once you have enough cities.

Not saying you can't use a bit more defensive-style to bait people into attacking you what you say, but it's still not gonna win you anything if you don't attack.

But there is something I forgot about since it was added in the addons which are unifer and seal victories, probably the only victories types where you can be more defensive and don't have to rely on expansionism. Especially unifier victory, but still the expansion snowballing still applies, not expanding is essentially just handicapping yourself.

[ThunderGr]

Originally posted by #OMEGA - K2:

Is is so bad that is probably the largest pitfall of AoW. You snowball so badly that a game becomes trival once you have enough cities.

That was before vassals. Playing defensively does not mean you are too lazy to scout. You can have one or two cities and three or four vassals and still be able to win without "expanding" but "turtling" in your territory that includes the vassals.

AoW3 can be perfectly played defensively but you also have to pick a suitable class and race. For certain, playing defensively is not being lazy.

I agree with BBB in general although, of course, I have different opinions about specifics.

[Stivomali]

As a sorcerer, I typically bee-line to Fantastic Creature, then focus on the support buffs the OP was talking about. I usually don't build the class-specific buildings right away unless I get one from a production resource. Early build focus is on labs and walls. This typically means I have 6-10 FCs before I start pumping out apprentices. I don't go back to the Horror path until I can research Node Serpent in ~5 turns. I find this approach still gets me the Paragon on my first Horror, and there's no point in working on Horror too early where it would take 20+ turns to research when you could be bumping Sorcery so that you can start pumping out the horrors in 2-3 turns once you do have them. This approach works well for.me in SP, YMMV in MP.

[Lazy_Puca]

As a sorcerer, I prioritize the 'summon whisp', since its a multi purpose unit. It scouts, it keeps my mana from overflowing and is a useful ancillary in any unit. Since I gob who wetland walk, the float of the whisp doesn't slow me down, and while they're frail in combat, the melee ai tends to avoid them because of their static shield.

Everything else is meh, as I prefer fighting with just the basic race class units anyway. I feel that the summoned units are meant to fill holes rather than be the standing army, but I don't play multiplayer so what I say may not apply.

[Ragic]

lets say youre playing on a island map. On your starting island you could easily plunk down your first explorer in the center of island and eventually your domain will expand to cover all the land mass and resources. you would then need to conquer another island in order to grow your empire. But you could also put your starting explorer off to the corner of that starting island and then quickly make 1 or 2 more settlers to make cities at the other corners of your island. yes they will crowd each other but you will have 2 or 3 economic/military production sites instead of just one. and they can help defend each other since they will be close enough to move statcks in between. you can even have garrison stacks at each city and keep one mobile stack in the middle to respond to threats.

for getting cities up and running quickly it all depends on what sort of threat they are facing but in gerneral i like to start with the first production, population and mana buildings, then make a barracks and produce a stack of tier 1 defenders follwed by a wall and seige workshop. then fofcus on growing the town to the point where you can make tier 2 units. if youre being threatened, go ahead and start making the teir 2 stacks. if not threatened, keep growing the town.

if you want to build a structure but dont have the resources for it, dont just leave it in the build que. switch to producing whatever resource your low on.

also, i think the style of play youre looking for is easier to achieve on Lord lvl of ai as they wont outbuild you as quickly and arent as aggressive.