Sorceror vs necromancer

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Elven soceror destruction mastery, keeper.
Vs
Elven necromancer shadowborn mastery,destruction adapt.

I want one of these two to be my favorite(it is a personality flaw, shut up)

But i cant desided.
Which do you favor and why?


Necromancer wins with 0.01%

[Szeron]

Depends what you're after. Do you want flexibility or specialization?

The Necromancer will be a lot more rounded with cheaper units.

The Sorceror will be a lot more ranged-heavy with really powerful support-spam.

[ThunderGr]

The Necromancer. The specializations you have picked suit him perfectly and have great synergy with the class. The Sorcerer with the Keeper and Destruction do not go very well together, in my opinion.(Maybe this is a reason for you to choose the Sorcerer, of course :p).

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by ThunderGr:

The Necromancer. The specializations you have picked suit him perfectly and have great synergy with the class. The Sorcerer with the Keeper and Destruction do not go very well together, in my opinion.(Maybe this is a reason for you to choose the Sorcerer, of course :p).

I mostly pick keeper adapt for the betrayel spell and the your units arent effected by negative moral modifiers until the end of the battle spell.
This in combination with blight empire is usefull.
Also summons dont care about terrian.

Originally posted by Szeron:

Depends what you're after. Do you want flexibility or specialization?

The Necromancer will be a lot more rounded with cheaper units.

The Sorceror will be a lot more ranged-heavy with really powerful support-spam.

I am after power.
That is why these two are so interesting.
The sorceror speaks to my desire for raw destructive power:
The sorceror has stun and phase upgrade.
Ungrade for faster spell research and mana.
Eldric horror, phantom warriors and whips(the other units i dont find usefull)
Runes of warding is a great way to keep my domain clear of anoying people.
And storm magic make my spells stronger.
After playing alot with necromancer i gain a new respect for the sorceror.
It is to my knowledge the only class with area of effect damage spells.

The necromancer speaks to my love for control/minnions.
(Because face it having people do whatever you want is always fun):
I love how units dont give a ♥♥♥♥ about moral.
How i can reanimate my troops.
How banshee destroy there moral or how deathstalkers ghoulify almost everything and dont get my started on the 40 health or die dreadreaper.
I love the phalectry.
And i consider age of death the best stalement breaker in the game.
Yet i dislike walking corpses(it just feels wrong) and the lack of regenration really slows my forces down.

[ThunderGr]

Lack of regeneration? What lack of regeneration??!! Never noticed anything like that :p.
Support units are always present in my stacks with the Necromancer. No delays whatsoever.
As I said, I think that you should go with the Necro. But if you do not like the undead armies then your question is void to begin with ;). Power may be what you seek most, alright, but power in a form you enjoy most, that is :).

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by ThunderGr:

Lack of regeneration? What lack of regeneration??!! Never noticed anything like that :p.
Support units are always present in my stacks with the Necromancer. No delays whatsoever.
As I said, I think that you should go with the Necro. But if you do not like the undead armies then your question is void to begin with ;). Power may be what you seek most, alright, but power in a form you enjoy most, that is :).

I said it slow me down, not that it stop me.
Beside i dont hate the undead.
I mean summoning is technicly kidnapping and enslavement...that is far worse.

As for power in what form i enjoy most.
Thruimp didnt add that class.
Would be overpowered anyway.
I mean reality warping powers has a tendency to make troops compleetly irelivant.
Because when you have the ability to turn dirt into fire, water into stone, poison into health, creating beings like gaint worms, flying swarms of death, having fire rain down and the earth trap everyone from moving, spliting rivers and walker over seas, sufficating entire armies or teleporting them straight to the bottem of the sea, causing mass heart attacks, invading dreams, etc....troops become irelivant.

[Kemenril]

Lack of regeneration?

Ghoul Trolls.

Fixed it for you.

[kalendologist]

You could do that. Just use the map editor. You could set any skill or spell to the starting skill. I tried a combined necromancer/sorcerer/destruction/fire. Could go solo mostly with Age of magic/storm magic/fire elementals/hell fire. Those with fire resistance are finished up by my undead minions.

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Originally posted by ThunderGr:

Lack of regeneration? What lack of regeneration??!! Never noticed anything like that :p.
Support units are always present in my stacks with the Necromancer. No delays whatsoever.
As I said, I think that you should go with the Necro. But if you do not like the undead armies then your question is void to begin with ;). Power may be what you seek most, alright, but power in a form you enjoy most, that is :).

I said it slow me down, not that it stop me.
Beside i dont hate the undead.
I mean summoning is technicly kidnapping and enslavement...that is far worse.

As for power in what form i enjoy most.
Thruimp didnt add that class.
Would be overpowered anyway.
I mean reality warping powers has a tendency to make troops compleetly irelivant.
Because when you have the ability to turn dirt into fire, water into stone, poison into health, creating beings like gaint worms, flying swarms of death, having fire rain down and the earth trap everyone from moving, spliting rivers and walker over seas, sufficating entire armies or teleporting them straight to the bottem of the sea, causing mass heart attacks, invading dreams, etc....troops become irelivant.

[mar3usmc]

Destruction adept sucks. I personally go expansionist. Helps a great deal with the slow growth necro cities suffer, and for you to expand out faster. Also, what are your race preferences? It makes a big difference.

I have played a lot of necro, and thus far I am still leaning towards elves being the best suited to play them. They get many damage types, and their supports can't be flanked. Also, the supports stun most everything. Additionally, their troops are armored, including archers but not the unflankable supports. Thus, you can make use of crystal trees. Their racial upgrades are actually very good and focus on a few things instead of trying to be a jack of all trades. With all this you can use the necro units and meat shields and the elf supports to keep your meat shield alive, and the enemy locked down. Archers can defend a city against most anything on their own and are dirt cheap on upkeep. Seriously, elves are so good.

Second best for me are Orcs. Their melee focus goes well with the strategic spells that give melee bonuses. They are still rather weak to magic, but again, make use of crystal trees. Their supports are also decent with curse and dispel, but lack control. Exploit despair works well with the supports as they lower moral at elite rank. Orcs don't defend cities as well as the elves, but razor boys do OK in melee when they are fight units off the walls. Greater life steal on their tier 3 is also very nice, and their death bringers hit really hard. HOWEVER, orcs lose out on one of their racial traits, victory rush.

So yea, what you select as your race is very important as you will be using a mix of necro units and racial units. How those synergize is very important.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by mar3usmc:

Destruction adept sucks. I personally go expansionist. Helps a great deal with the slow growth necro cities suffer, and for you to expand out faster. Also, what are your race preferences? It makes a big difference.

I have played a lot of necro, and thus far I am still leaning towards elves being the best suited to play them. They get many damage types, and their supports can't be flanked. Also, the supports stun most everything. Additionally, their troops are armored, including archers but not the unflankable supports. Thus, you can make use of crystal trees. Their racial upgrades are actually very good and focus on a few things instead of trying to be a jack of all trades. With all this you can use the necro units and meat shields and the elf supports to keep your meat shield alive, and the enemy locked down. Archers can defend a city against most anything on their own and are dirt cheap on upkeep. Seriously, elves are so good.

Second best for me are Orcs. Their melee focus goes well with the strategic spells that give melee bonuses. They are still rather weak to magic, but again, make use of crystal trees. Their supports are also decent with curse and dispel, but lack control. Exploit despair works well with the supports as they lower moral at elite rank. Orcs don't defend cities as well as the elves, but razor boys do OK in melee when they are fight units off the walls. Greater life steal on their tier 3 is also very nice, and their death bringers hit really hard. HOWEVER, orcs lose out on one of their racial traits, victory rush.

So yea, what you select as your race is very important as you will be using a mix of necro units and racial units. How those synergize is very important.

New to these forums?
I am a well know elf lover.
Also:
Instant looting, scorched earth, blight domain and killer instinc disagree's with you.
Necromancers more then any other class benifit from the destruction of towns.
Simple because reanimate ruins is cheaper then settlers.
This makes you great at denying your enemy towns while at the same time it doesnt cost you much to rebuild your losses.

[mar3usmc]

Or you can just convert the town, not raze it, and use one of the necro abilities to convert the land to blight (which is master destruction btw and is, of course, more useful than adept). Killer instinct is ok, not at all worth it compared to other specs available. The other abilities are just redundant or unnecessary.

Not trying to trash your idea, but I just think there are much better options. I think if you want to roleplay that is fine, but I am more a number guy (physicist by trade). I tried the destruction route (thinking more RP at the time), and found that I never used any of the abilities from that spec. I just kept using the necro abilities/spells in combat, and never made use of killer instinct. However, my ability to expand out fast with expansionist and grow my economy fast enough to keep up with an emperor AI (very slow growth setting too) was far more significant. More gold with more population = more units, more unit more towns conquered, rinse and repeat.

Not new to the forums, been here for a fair while.

[ThunderGr]

I also have concluded that expansionist is good for the Necro, but I pair it with Master Destruction :). However, I do not think that the point here is to suggest combinations to Malaficus, as I am certain he has tried every possible combination, that he would find of interest, himself, already :).

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by mar3usmc:

Or you can just convert the town, not raze it, and use one of the necro abilities to convert the land to blight (which is master destruction btw and is, of course, more useful than adept). Killer instinct is ok, not at all worth it compared to other specs available. The other abilities are just redundant or unnecessary.

Not trying to trash your idea, but I just think there are much better options. I think if you want to roleplay that is fine, but I am more a number guy (physicist by trade). I tried the destruction route (thinking more RP at the time), and found that I never used any of the abilities from that spec. I just kept using the necro abilities/spells in combat, and never made use of killer instinct. However, my ability to expand out fast with expansionist and grow my economy fast enough to keep up with an emperor AI (very slow growth setting too) was far more significant. More gold with more population = more units, more unit more towns conquered, rinse and repeat.

Not new to the forums, been here for a fair while.

I destroy towns i cant keep.
It isnt roleplay so much as it is simple denial of resourses.
If i roleplayedi be a sorceror of unlimeted power.
But the wont let me have unlimeted power.

Originally posted by ThunderGr:

I also have concluded that expansionist is good for the Necro, but I pair it with Master Destruction :). However, I do not think that the point here is to suggest combinations to Malaficus, as I am certain he has tried every possible combination, that he would find of interest, himself, already :).

Pretty much.
It is mostly just spells vs minnions that causes me to doubt.

[ThunderGr]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Pretty much.
It is mostly just spells vs minnions that causes me to doubt.

I am afraid that each of those categories have its own charm. So, you will have to keep *two* favorite combinations :).

[WolfWhiteFire]

There is a mod on the steam workshop called Deluxe Specialization Combination Selection if you want that, it has many combinations of the spheres and classes, and allows you to make classes other than your primary class specializations, maybe not the most balanced but it sounds like you want power. With the mod you can be both a sorceror, necromancer, and I believe Shadowborn Adept & Master, Keeper Adept & Master, and Destruction Adept & Master (you would have two specialization slots left so you could choose the Shadowborn and Keeper of the Peace Adept & Master specialization and the Destruction Adept & Master specialization, though you could instead do one of the combinations including Destruction Adept & Master). All that you would need to decide is which one you think has the better hero upgrades, you would keep chaneller whichever you choose as your primary class, and if you had necro be your primary then you would most likely get necro hero, as sorceror primary it would be random I believe. Which one you have as your primary solely affects your leader's class for hero upgrades and whether your first hero would be random or most likely necromancer. I know this is a kind of old thread but might as well give an answer in case the OP still checks this.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

One thing to consider is that elven Storm Sisters get stun natively at gold medal. For sorcerers, this is redundant. But for necromancers, you get a unit that stuns AND heals undead.

It does take some effort to level them up, but not that much since you can train them at silver medal thanks to the Cathedral of Bones.

If you get the racial government option that lets them ignore obstacles and range penalties, you have some truly amazing units.

On the downside, as Elves your undead are no longer immune to blight damage. Moderately annoying.