Age of Wonders III

Age of Wonders III

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Lucid Mar 30, 2015 @ 12:20am
Experience Mechanics
Hey,
Does anyone know some good information on the experience mechanics? As in what causes you to gain XP?
How does it work for heros?
How for normal units?
Are there penalties for multiple heroes in a stack?
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
I don't know exact numbers but i can vaguely answer these questions.

Originally posted by Lucid:
As in what causes you to gain XP?

Using abilities in combat, taking damage (more damage, more XP I believe), causing damage, extra XP is awarded for killing a unit (more XP is awarded based on tier).

As of the 1.5 Beta, there are some abilities that no longer award XP. They are all of the movement abilities, Phase, Sprint, etc. (also War Cry)

Originally posted by Lucid:
How does it work for heros?
How for normal units?

Essentially the same way. Heroes currently get a little bit of XP every turn on the strategic map regardless of whether they participate in combat or not. Normal Units do not do this.

I think there was something with the difference in Tiers of fighting units that affected XP when damage being taken/inflicted. I do not remember the specifics if it even exists. I could just be delusional.

Originally posted by Lucid:
Are there penalties for multiple heroes in a stack?

Nope.
Last edited by Dr_K [Rosencrantz]; Mar 30, 2015 @ 6:31am
MattStriker Mar 30, 2015 @ 6:57am 
There's one more thing: Leaders appear get a tiny amount of exp for each battle you fight whether they were present or not, so you'll occasionally see a levelup from somebody who was half a continent away at the time.

It's also possible this exp gain is from leader spellcasting...I haven't really done any testing on it yet.
Last edited by MattStriker; Mar 30, 2015 @ 6:58am
Originally posted by MattStriker:
There's one more thing: Leaders appear get a tiny amount of exp for each battle you fight whether they were present or not, so you'll occasionally see a levelup from somebody who was half a continent away at the time.

It's also possible this exp gain is from leader spellcasting...I haven't really done any testing on it yet.

I'm pretty sure it is from spellcasting. Numerous times, I have had my leader use a nuke spell to kill units and level up from it (extra XP from killing blow). I assume it works for all spells that the leader casts.

I haven't checked to see if the leader gets XP when you don't cast a spell, but I doubt that it happens.

Edit: Just checked. Leader does not receive XP for not casting spells when they aren't involved in the battle.
Last edited by Dr_K [Rosencrantz]; Mar 30, 2015 @ 7:12am
Lucid Mar 30, 2015 @ 7:20am 
Thanks, thats helpful. Does anyone have exact numbers for per hit / per kill experience gain?

Originally posted by Rosencrantz:
I don't know exact numbers but i can vaguely answer these questions.

Originally posted by Lucid:
As in what causes you to gain XP?

Using abilities in combat, taking damage (more damage, more XP I believe), causing damage, extra XP is awarded for killing a unit (more XP is awarded based on tier).

As of the 1.5 Beta, there are some abilities that no longer award XP. They are all of the movement abilities, Phase, Sprint, etc. (also War Cry)

Originally posted by Lucid:
How does it work for heros?
How for normal units?

Essentially the same way. Heroes currently get a little bit of XP every turn on the strategic map regardless of whether they participate in combat or not. Normal Units do not do this.

I think there was something with the difference in Tiers of fighting units that affected XP when damage being taken/inflicted. I do not remember the specifics if it even exists. I could just be delusional.

Originally posted by Lucid:
Are there penalties for multiple heroes in a stack?

Nope.
[WHY!?]Dr X Mar 31, 2015 @ 2:41pm 
Some of this info may be outdated or incorrect, but this is how experience gain works to the best of my understanding.

-Units will gain experience equal to their tier for every action they perform, with heroes and leaders counting as tier 4 units. A high elf longbowman shooting three times would gain 3 xp, while an archdruid hero shooting their longbow three times would gain 12 xp. I will refer to this as the "engagement experience". The exception to this is any single shot ranged attacks (poison spit, heavy crossbow, etc.), which give double xp.

-Units being hit in melee will gain xp equal to the tier of the unit hitting them for each hit taken. This is on top of whatever engagement experience you would gain, so a tier 1 unit would gain 5 experience for hitting a hero in melee and being hit in return (1 engagement xp plus 4 for being hit in melee) with the hero gaining an equal amount of xp (1 for being hit in melee plus 4 engagement xp).

-Units scoring a kill will NOT gain the engagement experience for the killing blow and will INSTEAD gain experience equal to the slain enemy's tier times five. Killing a tier 1 unit grants 5 xp, tier 2 is worth 10, tier 3 is 15 xp, and tier 4 units and heroes are worth 20 xp. This means that, with a few specific exceptions, the best way to gain experience is to land the final blow.

-All heroes and leaders will gain 1 xp at the start of each turn, as Rosencrantz said earlier.

Hopefully I didn't make that too confusing.
DrakenKin Mar 31, 2015 @ 6:55pm 
Originally posted by WHY!?Dr X:
Hopefully I didn't make that too confusing.
Crystal clear. Thank you very much, that's some very useful information right there. Now I know how to best level my engineers until they can make repairs (land final hits). :)

Also I tried figuring this out through observation but it seemed like xp was random. It being dependant on unit level compleely threw me off.

Anyway, thanks again.
This topic prompted me to do some testing to actually figure out the precise values for the XP mechanics. The majority of what Dr X wrote is mostly correct from what I've found. Note the following are values in the non-beta version. There are probably exceptions in each of these categories, but they should encompass almost all of the abilities that award XP in-game.

General XP
Attacks that can trigger 3x: Each attack grants the user it's own tier's worth of XP.
Ex: A Priest firing 2 shots of the Spirit Ray will give it 4 XP, 2 XP for each shot.

Other Abilities: Each use of an ability awards 2*Tier of the unit using the ability. This includes all single shot ranged attacks, but not area of effect attacks. As of the 1.5 beta, movement abilities (and War Cry) do not award XP in this manner anymore.
Ex: An Evangelist using Heal awards the unit 6 XP, and no XP for the target (unless target is self).

Being Attacked: If a unit is attacked with a melee attack. It receives XP equal to the tier of the attacking unit. This affects retaliation attacks and attacks of opportunity. Note that this only happens with melee attacks other abilities do not award XP for being hit by them.
Ex: Suppose a Crusader attacks a Titan 3 times, but the Titan can only retaliate 2 times. Both units are awarded 3*2 + 2*4 = 14 XP.

Killing Blow
Landing the killing blow should replace the expected XP with 5x the tier of the killed unit. This includes damaging abilities as well as normal melee/ranged attacks.
Ex: Consider the crusader/titan case where the Titan kills the crusader on the second retaliation. The awarded XP is 3*2 + 4 = 10 XP for the Crusader (before it dies) and 3*2 + 4 + 5*2 = 20 XP for the Titan.

Area of Effect
Area of Effect attacks behave similarly to 3x ranged attacks. The user receives XP equal to its tier for every unit hit with the attack. Killing a unit should replace the expected tier XP with 5x the tier of the dying unit (needs to be tested).
Ex: Suppose a Blight Elemental is using Weakening breath on 5 units (that can be affected). It will receive 5*3 = 15 XP if none of them die. Suppose that a T3 and T1 of the 5 died. The XP awarded should be 3*5 + 5*1 + 5*3 = 35 XP.

Spells
They seem to award 2x tier of the spell being cast. Needs more testing.

Special Cases
Heroes
Heroes seem to behave like T3 units in my testing, at least with respect to all XP gain besides kills. It seems like they behave like T5/6 when they die granting ~25/30 XP for the unit that lands a killing blow on a hero. Needs more testing. They also passively gain 1 XP per strategic map turn.

Spell Killing Blow
Apparently killing a unit with a spell seemed to award the hero XP for using the spell as well as 5x the tier of the killed unit.

Static Shield
The damage inflicted by Static Shield behaves like a retaliation strike (with respect to XP). Ex: Suppose that we have the same case as in the Being Attacked example, but the Titan has Static Shield. Both units receive the same XP, but the total value is 3*2 + 3*4 + 2*4 = 26 XP. Each static shield check after the Crusader attacks awards both units +4 XP (since the Titan is a T4 unit).

I will hopefully get some time to do more testing tomorrow. I am planning to add this to the wiki eventually, so any corrections, exceptions, or 1.5 changes are greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Dr_K [Rosencrantz]; Mar 31, 2015 @ 7:11pm
Lampros Mar 31, 2015 @ 8:17pm 
Originally posted by Rosencrantz:
This topic prompted me to do some testing to actually figure out the precise values for the XP mechanics. The majority of what Dr X wrote is mostly correct from what I've found. Note the following are values in the non-beta version. There are probably exceptions in each of these categories, but they should encompass almost all of the abilities that award XP in-game.

General XP
Attacks that can trigger 3x: Each attack grants the user it's own tier's worth of XP.
Ex: A Priest firing 2 shots of the Spirit Ray will give it 4 XP, 2 XP for each shot.

Other Abilities: Each use of an ability awards 2*Tier of the unit using the ability. This includes all single shot ranged attacks, but not area of effect attacks. As of the 1.5 beta, movement abilities (and War Cry) do not award XP in this manner anymore.
Ex: An Evangelist using Heal awards the unit 6 XP, and no XP for the target (unless target is self).

Being Attacked: If a unit is attacked with a melee attack. It receives XP equal to the tier of the attacking unit. This affects retaliation attacks and attacks of opportunity. Note that this only happens with melee attacks other abilities do not award XP for being hit by them.
Ex: Suppose a Crusader attacks a Titan 3 times, but the Titan can only retaliate 2 times. Both units are awarded 3*2 + 2*4 = 14 XP.

Killing Blow
Landing the killing blow should replace the expected XP with 5x the tier of the killed unit. This includes damaging abilities as well as normal melee/ranged attacks.
Ex: Consider the crusader/titan case where the Titan kills the crusader on the second retaliation. The awarded XP is 3*2 + 4 = 10 XP for the Crusader (before it dies) and 3*2 + 4 + 5*2 = 20 XP for the Titan.

Area of Effect
Area of Effect attacks behave similarly to 3x ranged attacks. The user receives XP equal to its tier for every unit hit with the attack. Killing a unit should replace the expected tier XP with 5x the tier of the dying unit (needs to be tested).
Ex: Suppose a Blight Elemental is using Weakening breath on 5 units (that can be affected). It will receive 5*3 = 15 XP if none of them die. Suppose that a T3 and T1 of the 5 died. The XP awarded should be 3*5 + 5*1 + 5*3 = 35 XP.

Spells
They seem to award 2x tier of the spell being cast. Needs more testing.

Special Cases
Heroes
Heroes seem to behave like T3 units in my testing, at least with respect to all XP gain besides kills. It seems like they behave like T5/6 when they die granting ~25/30 XP for the unit that lands a killing blow on a hero. Needs more testing. They also passively gain 1 XP per strategic map turn.

Spell Killing Blow
Apparently killing a unit with a spell seemed to award the hero XP for using the spell as well as 5x the tier of the killed unit.

Static Shield
The damage inflicted by Static Shield behaves like a retaliation strike (with respect to XP). Ex: Suppose that we have the same case as in the Being Attacked example, but the Titan has Static Shield. Both units receive the same XP, but the total value is 3*2 + 3*4 + 2*4 = 26 XP. Each static shield check after the Crusader attacks awards both units +4 XP (since the Titan is a T4 unit).

I will hopefully get some time to do more testing tomorrow. I am planning to add this to the wiki eventually, so any corrections, exceptions, or 1.5 changes are greatly appreciated.

Really impressive stuff - thank you.

I don't understand why being attacked with spells or ranged weapons do not grant XP though. I sure would learn a lot if I survive an arrow storm. Further, I don't understand why non-combat actions no longer grant XP either.

Increasing the amount and ways of obtaining XP is a good thing; reducing them emphatically is not.
DrakenKin Mar 31, 2015 @ 8:32pm 
Increasing the amount and ways of obtaining XP is a good thing; reducing them emphatically is not.
It is to protect players from themselves.

Some people would just sit for 30 minutes each fight and kill walls for XP. Then they quit the game complaining that it is boring.

The fact that useless actions don't grant xp means players focus on playing the game as it was intended, and the game ends up being more fun in the end.
Last edited by DrakenKin; Mar 31, 2015 @ 8:37pm
Lampros Mar 31, 2015 @ 8:36pm 


Originally posted by Draken:
It is to protect players from themselves.

Some people would just sit for 30 minutes each fight and kill walls for XP. Then they quit the game complaining that it is boring.

The fact that useless actions don't grant xp means players focus on playing the game as it was intended, and the game ends up being more fun in the end.

There is already limit to XP per unit to control this; further, a lot of these "useless actions" can only be undertaken once per battle anyways.
[WHY!?]Dr X Mar 31, 2015 @ 10:12pm 
Wow, thanks for doing all of that testing, Rosencrantz! In case it helps any, I'm fairly certain at one point heroes were considered to be tier 5 and leaders tier 6; that must still be the case for the amount of experience they give when they die, even if they act like a tier 3 in every other respect now.
DrakenKin Apr 1, 2015 @ 12:09am 
I observed a few things in the game today :

1) Heroes act as level 3 when hitting. Ex hitting with crossbow gains 6 xp.
2) I was shot by an AOE attack (spread from an engineer) and it gave me NO xp
3) I had a weapon with a "burning" effect, noticed that ticks from enemy unit burning every turn did not give any xp.
4) I attacked with an AOE (fire bomb), hit one unit, and it only gave me 2xp instead of the expected 3..
5) Not only DoT effects don't give experience, but if it is what finishes an enemy, the xp is completely wasted and you don't get credit for the kill.
Last edited by DrakenKin; Apr 1, 2015 @ 12:25am
Lucid Apr 1, 2015 @ 1:52am 
Excellent!!!! Thanks! The wiki would really benefit from what you have put together.

This also does stir up some thoughts around power leveling high tier armies with mass static shield casting (since it is low damage - so your xp / damage dealt is high). Actually maybe it balances itself out since you are hit fewer times and hence less retaliation xp.

Originally posted by Rosencrantz:
This topic prompted me to do some testing to actually figure out the precise values for the XP mechanics. The majority of what Dr X wrote is mostly correct from what I've found. Note the following are values in the non-beta version. There are probably exceptions in each of these categories, but they should encompass almost all of the abilities that award XP in-game.

General XP
Attacks that can trigger 3x: Each attack grants the user it's own tier's worth of XP.
Ex: A Priest firing 2 shots of the Spirit Ray will give it 4 XP, 2 XP for each shot.

Other Abilities: Each use of an ability awards 2*Tier of the unit using the ability. This includes all single shot ranged attacks, but not area of effect attacks. As of the 1.5 beta, movement abilities (and War Cry) do not award XP in this manner anymore.
Ex: An Evangelist using Heal awards the unit 6 XP, and no XP for the target (unless target is self).

Being Attacked: If a unit is attacked with a melee attack. It receives XP equal to the tier of the attacking unit. This affects retaliation attacks and attacks of opportunity. Note that this only happens with melee attacks other abilities do not award XP for being hit by them.
Ex: Suppose a Crusader attacks a Titan 3 times, but the Titan can only retaliate 2 times. Both units are awarded 3*2 + 2*4 = 14 XP.

Killing Blow
Landing the killing blow should replace the expected XP with 5x the tier of the killed unit. This includes damaging abilities as well as normal melee/ranged attacks.
Ex: Consider the crusader/titan case where the Titan kills the crusader on the second retaliation. The awarded XP is 3*2 + 4 = 10 XP for the Crusader (before it dies) and 3*2 + 4 + 5*2 = 20 XP for the Titan.

Area of Effect
Area of Effect attacks behave similarly to 3x ranged attacks. The user receives XP equal to its tier for every unit hit with the attack. Killing a unit should replace the expected tier XP with 5x the tier of the dying unit (needs to be tested).
Ex: Suppose a Blight Elemental is using Weakening breath on 5 units (that can be affected). It will receive 5*3 = 15 XP if none of them die. Suppose that a T3 and T1 of the 5 died. The XP awarded should be 3*5 + 5*1 + 5*3 = 35 XP.

Spells
They seem to award 2x tier of the spell being cast. Needs more testing.

Special Cases
Heroes
Heroes seem to behave like T3 units in my testing, at least with respect to all XP gain besides kills. It seems like they behave like T5/6 when they die granting ~25/30 XP for the unit that lands a killing blow on a hero. Needs more testing. They also passively gain 1 XP per strategic map turn.

Spell Killing Blow
Apparently killing a unit with a spell seemed to award the hero XP for using the spell as well as 5x the tier of the killed unit.

Static Shield
The damage inflicted by Static Shield behaves like a retaliation strike (with respect to XP). Ex: Suppose that we have the same case as in the Being Attacked example, but the Titan has Static Shield. Both units receive the same XP, but the total value is 3*2 + 3*4 + 2*4 = 26 XP. Each static shield check after the Crusader attacks awards both units +4 XP (since the Titan is a T4 unit).

I will hopefully get some time to do more testing tomorrow. I am planning to add this to the wiki eventually, so any corrections, exceptions, or 1.5 changes are greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Lucid; Apr 1, 2015 @ 1:56am
Lampros Apr 1, 2015 @ 7:12am 
Originally posted by Draken:
I observed a few things in the game today :

1) Heroes act as level 3 when hitting. Ex hitting with crossbow gains 6 xp.
2) I was shot by an AOE attack (spread from an engineer) and it gave me NO xp
3) I had a weapon with a "burning" effect, noticed that ticks from enemy unit burning every turn did not give any xp.
4) I attacked with an AOE (fire bomb), hit one unit, and it only gave me 2xp instead of the expected 3..
5) Not only DoT effects don't give experience, but if it is what finishes an enemy, the xp is completely wasted and you don't get credit for the kill.

I knew some of these, but others I didn't.

Altogether it's depressing. It's just the wrong direction to go for the devs to reduce XP.
Originally posted by Lampros:
I don't understand why being attacked with spells or ranged weapons do not grant XP though. I sure would learn a lot if I survive an arrow storm. Further, I don't understand why non-combat actions no longer grant XP either.

I think that originally ranged attacks awarded XP to the receiver, but I don't know why it was changed. Also, I'm not sure why they changed the movement abilities XP, but my guess is that they are easily exploitable to farm XP in some manner.

Originally posted by Draken:
Some people would just sit for 30 minutes each fight and kill walls for XP. Then they quit the game complaining that it is boring.

I didn't try walls, but Obstacles did not give XP for attacking them or destroying them.



Originally posted by Draken:
...
4) I attacked with an AOE (fire bomb), hit one unit, and it only gave me 2xp instead of the expected 3..
...

All of the other observations seem as expected with what I found, but (3) is the only one that seems out of place. I'm assuming it was a Hero throwing Fire Bomb. Do you know what tier unit you hit? Maybe AoE works differently for heroes, or my observation happened to line up with the actual method of calculation.


Originally posted by Lucid:
Excellent!!!! Thanks! The wiki would really benefit from what you have put together.

This also does stir up some thoughts around power leveling high tier armies with mass static shield casting (since it is low damage - so your xp / damage dealt is high). Actually maybe it balances itself out since you are hit fewer times and hence less retaliation xp.

This was actually on my list of projects for the wiki awhile ago, but had been forgotten and pushed aside.

As for Static Shield and Static Electricity, I opened a topic on the Help & Support forum about that.
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Date Posted: Mar 30, 2015 @ 12:20am
Posts: 15