Rogue - what race and specialization? - considering the future patch

[Kozzie]

Since rogue is on the weak side in the present meta - due to their best unit being a actual tier 3.5 not t4 - the time from early game untill the t4 spam time is more important for them than any other class (and this will also be true when the t4 spam counter patch will go live as the stalker will probably not be changed) - the race and specialization are more important for the rogue than anyone else

so my question is - in your opinion what race and specialization should the rogue use?
(lets assume a small city start , few or medium amount of cities no new city placement)
-> from my perspective - there are only 2 good choices for the rogue and 1 medicore

1) st good choice being the high elves -> their archers can defend well and are good at clearing various sites due to high damage output - and the storm sisters are good for an elemental damage source that is not so easily resisted
2) 2nd good choice are the draconians - passive hp regen helps with wounds the rogue t2-3 can suffer and the possibility of buffing their units by the elders are also really nice (great damage boost as it can help flamers defend properly and buff the possible assasins nearby)
3) 1 medicore choice are the orcs -> their units get a melee damage boost and hp boost but the suffer from lack of resistance - which combined with the possibility of encountering a flame tank or apprentices or shamans makes the orc units realy squishy vs magic , not to mention easier conversion etc. - thou the spearmen spam can be good with explorer,

bad choices for me are the humans - > nothing really appealing about them , dwarfs are just to expencive and have bigger difficulties clearing sites and goblins in my opinion do not have enough hp to last. - a goblin assasin can be often killed in 1 volley by an elven archer.

specializations - for me its ofc a mix of explorer (iregulalrs buff ) and either master earth magic (earthquake for the late game fights + usefull def bonuses) or master wind magic ( for the battlefield spell of wind ward , accuracy increase and haste for crucial pushes)

I assume people have diffrent opinions and thats why i would love to listen to their point of view

[AnemoneMeer]

Rogue is hardly weak, having access to the largest collection of T4 slayers out of the gate. We don't field T4's. We kill them. Scoundrels can hard counter Shrines of smiting if they can get in, and with explorer, they can run from outside its range up to it, and blow off its HP bar in short order. for 10 mana, a single scoundrel can inflict 90+ damage to a shrine of smiting from outside of its killing range, same with juggernauts. Shadow stalkers can flatten physicals outright, and eldritch horrors are easy enough to burst down with assassins who can move from outside their attack range directly into their faces and blow them up. We don't need T4's.

Best build I've found is Explorer, Earth Master, Elf. Rogue needs all the edges it can get for holding land, and most of its lategame siege engine is airborne and weak to magic anyway, and earthquake has a tendancy to kill all the game's readily available sources of elemental damage instantly.

Draconian has very little real synergy with rogue, scoundrels have fast healing innately, their archers conflict with the rogue's heavy melee focus, their irregulars end up dual wielding the two easiest to defend against elements in the game, and generally, they don't work well together.

Humans, orcs, and dwarves are actually very strong rogue candidates, due to having access to innate healing on their supports in human/dwarf case and amazing irregulars in the orc case. Humans tend towards having "Armored" units, which maks them very strong. Civic guards are weaker scoundrels, but human healing and defensive ability allows them quite a bit of leverage. Dwarves have access to firstborn, who are Infantry, who get access to the rogue global buffs, who ascend to outright godhood when they're scoring backstabs. Orc irregulars have shields, innate durability, and generally high damage.

A goblin anything will be killed fast. Goblins have reduced unit costs as a result. when you factor the rogue's tendancy to expand like wildfire into the equation, and mix destruction magic in, goblin rogues can very easily drown their enemies in blood.


I'd argue rogue is less weak, and more "Difficult, but Awesome", in that they really do have an answer in unit form to most anything, are able to break hero cap, can easily raise the largest army, and have massive expansion and sabotage advantages, but happen to require alot of systems knowledge and race mixing to really excel at. Seeing a 45 gold cost irregular swing for lethal on a hero on its own makes it worth it every time though.

A gold ranked dwarven firstborn with rogue buffs will literally disembowel anything it attacks.