Age of Wonders III

Age of Wonders III

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resieg Apr 18, 2022 @ 12:17pm
Map (DLC) “Dragon Throne”
I would like to share some experiences with the map (DLC) “Dragon Throne” (extra large, 8 parties).

Default is: All 7 AI as Knights (difficulty).
Looks quite easy to me.

I am at turn 40, I am friend with everyone (open border too). And a few opponents did gift me already lots of money (250-400). They want to honor our friendship. 😊

My overall score is 3 to 4 times as much as the others.

Anyone had any experiences?
On what difficulty?
Any hints?
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Showing 1-15 of 34 comments
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 18, 2022 @ 12:27pm 
It's a beautifully crafted map, but it isn't really anything special. It's so big that lower level AI enemies really aren't going to be much of a challenge.

Disadvantage of maps like this is that you'll probably need another 40-60 turns to actually win it, even though at this stage it's quite obvious you're in a dominant position.
resieg Apr 18, 2022 @ 12:58pm 
Thought so.
So I will start over, with one step higher in difficulty (or should I take 2 steps?)

Map is really fun...

(are neutrals more difficult on higher difficulty levels?)
Last edited by resieg; Apr 18, 2022 @ 12:59pm
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 18, 2022 @ 1:17pm 
Neutral difficulty is a different setting. You adjust it by setting defender strength and roaming unit strength. Difficulty only affects AI player settings.

Instead of changing the difficulty globally, it's usually a good idea to go to the advanced options and just assign difficulties to various opponents. That way you can mix and match: i.e. you might set a necromancer to a higher level than a warlord, because the AI is better at playing warlords.

Generally speaking the really big difficulty gap is between Lord and King level. Emperor is a smaller jump.
resieg Apr 18, 2022 @ 2:22pm 
Thanks, so I will play against 1 King and 6 Lords. No change for defender and roaming units.
Looking forward...
resieg Apr 22, 2022 @ 2:45am 
Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:
It's a beautifully crafted map, but it isn't really anything special. It's so big that lower level AI enemies really aren't going to be much of a challenge.

Disadvantage of maps like this is that you'll probably need another 40-60 turns to actually win it, even though at this stage it's quite obvious you're in a dominant position.
Not anything special ... OK.
What does a map make it "a special one" in your opinion?.
I was thinking, challenge is a question of difficulty lvl, not of map size.

In my actual PT, I do not feel that I am in a dominant position ...
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 22, 2022 @ 5:33am 
"Special" can mean anything from unique heroes, scripted story events, a unique strategic situation, custom units, custom terrain...

Basically the question is:

* Does this play like a random map, but prettier? -> not special
* Does this give an experience I cannot create in a random map? -> special

For example, the Taming of the Great Khan is special because it offers a unique situation. Custom maps like Fate of Emrilia is incredibly special because you can play it with different factions and get a completely unique experience with a different story and different mechanics for each.

I was thinking, challenge is a question of difficulty lvl, not of map size.

In part. Difficultly level gives the AI more toys to play with, but depending on your faction a small or a large map may be harder, and getting in early wars is often harder than when you've had the chance to build up.
Last edited by Iguana-on-a-stick; Apr 22, 2022 @ 5:35am
resieg Apr 22, 2022 @ 6:42am 
Thanks for clarification of "Special One".
I guess, as a newb with no xp on random maps, every game is special ... ;)

Map size: Ok I am more a builder than a rusher.
Therefore, (extra) large map is fine for me.

But: Don't high difficult AI also have an advantage to build huge empires on large maps, before they meet me?
Last edited by resieg; Apr 22, 2022 @ 8:15am
resieg Apr 26, 2022 @ 2:15am 
How do you handle big maps with lots of isles (like Dragon Throne)?

Do you care about neutral spots on isles (medium to far away, while exploring)?

Paying to get them as vasalls /joining them - quite expensive.
And I am not sure, if I will be able to defend them later on.

May be just vasalls is good, and take some tributes from time to time?
Last edited by resieg; Apr 26, 2022 @ 2:16am
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 26, 2022 @ 5:12am 
Yeah, vassal is definitely the way to go there.

The tribute is very nice (especially if you need an army in a hurry) but they also just provide a portion of their income to you every turn, more if they're happy with you. (So be nice to their people, orc vassals will start to rebel if you commit genocide against orcs and such.)
GreyHuntr Apr 26, 2022 @ 4:09pm 
At the very least vassals deny access to your enemies. Often worth it for that.
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 27, 2022 @ 2:52am 
Answer to a previous question I missed:

But: Don't high difficult AI also have an advantage to build huge empires on large maps, before they meet me?

Generally, in the early game on high difficulty maps the AI will be much stronger than you: their early research boosts gets them casting points more quickly, their starting armies are bigger and their income and production boosts let them get off the ground faster. You can keep up by (ab)using mind-control strategies, but since I don't I generally find myself outclassed for the first 20-30 turns of a game.

I can still win wars at this point, mind you, but it involves gathering up every single last scrap of troops I can find and staking it all on one decisive battle. And then doing it again. And again. If I lose once I pretty much lose the game, but the AI isn't that smart so I usually don't.

Later game, even if the AI is still stronger in absolute terms, it's not as risky. The game is set up to nerf even high difficulty AI: they can only build a few more cities than you can. So they can't mushroom across the map faster than you can.

But the cities they get do grow faster, so you can't waste time even on large maps. You have to use the time to catch up to the AI. This isn't trivial, but it's quite doable even against the highest level (cheaty) AI.)

Economically, you can catch so through placing your cities better, (more income from treasure sites!) clearing more sites for funding, improving your morale through terraforming and nabbing Heart structures and whatnot. Sure, the AI will probably still have bigger cities and more gold, but you'll have better cities.

Militarily, you won't match AI numbers, but you can outmatch them in quality. Research all the good upgrades, and build your fewer troops in cities where they get bonuses from mystic city sites and plenty of free medals. Keep them alive so they gain XP.

Once you get to armies of more than just a couple of stacks, this game favours quality over quantity. 3 stacks of tough, well-upgraded troops can defeat 10 stacks of troops that mix their tier IV stuff with summoned crows and drones and don't position them properly. You'd have to fight several battles in a row, but you can win each with no or minimum casualties.

And even if you lose such an army... with proper production chains set up you can build them back, and if you lose troops your upkeep goes down so you should have the money to do so.

The AI isn't really good at mounting fast, decisive campaigns. If you lose a battle you might lose a frontier city or two, or get pushed back from your offensive, but you'll still win the game.

So in summary: early game you'll have a crap economy and army. So does the AI but they'll have more. Late game you can have a great economy and army. The AI may have more stuff, but you'll have better. There's also more room to make errors.

That's why I find playing on larger maps easier and more forgiving.
tvance52 Apr 27, 2022 @ 7:01pm 
Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:
The game is set up to nerf even high difficulty AI: they can only build a few more cities than you can. So they can't mushroom across the map faster than you can.

I agree with everything Iguana said.

As Iguana mentioned, the AI is capped based on how many cities you have and the difficulty level. from https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com/wiki/AI#Difficulty#Difficulty

Difficulty - number of cities AI can create in excess of number of cities the Player owns

Squire - 1
Knight - 1
Lord - 1
King - 3
Emperor - 4

So at Squire/Lord/Knight, if a Player has 5 cities each AI should limited to creating 6 cities. This does not include cities it conquers after reaching the limit, so if one AI has 6 cities and conquers another from a different AI opponent or the player it would have 7. But it cannnot found any new cities with settlers once it reaches the above cap.

This is why on the other thread I mentioned I have no neutral or dwellings on maps I play. An AI opponent could, I believe, at Emperor level found/conquer 4 more cities than a human player and then conquer neutrals. If I have founded 6 cities, every AI could get to 10. If there are neutrals the AI can conquer them and get past 10, letting them really snowball way too fast for my liking. One AI could then rush other AIs, get their cities, and next thing you know you're fighting an AI with 3 times more cities than you if you're not careful. Really hard to win without massive cheating if you have 10 cities and the AI has 50....you'll get T4 spam against you. (This also kills my game due to turns taking forever as the game move hundreds of stacks per turn and trying to process the decision trees).

Since AI empires would (usually) expand at about the same rate as another AI, with starting distances set to "far", AI opponents fighting each other will take some time before any start getting defeated by others and starting to snowball into a massive empire. By the time they can, you should already be in a position where you're already conquering AI opponents as well.

If AIs are set to be on the same team, with teams starting near each other they can limit their allies' ability to expand. If you 3 or more AI on a team, the AI starting in the middle will usually get crowded out of expansion and be stuck with 3 or 4 cities while their AI partner take 2 directions away from them and the map edge takes the 3rd direction. The will only be able to expand toward the middle of the map in a line on settlements, though since they're developing slower they will usually get cut off by their faster growing allies. They'll be stuck being the "runt of the litter" in terms of opponents. Adding underground may change this a bit, but usually not much.

That's why I find playing on larger maps easier and more forgiving.

Yes, I don't like to play smaller maps. I don't like to feel so rushed when playing.
Last edited by tvance52; Apr 27, 2022 @ 7:09pm
resieg Apr 28, 2022 @ 7:15am 
I had a lot of fun with this map (Dragon Throne), stopped at turn 66.

No teams, 2 Kings, 5 Lords.
My overall Score was equal with Kings. Same with military.
My Knowledge was a little less, my domain much higher (Lords did not come much downstairs, leaving it for me).

Next try will be with 7 Kings on this map.
Still no teams (I still hope I can win an AI as an ally some day).

Fast research (=game speed), 5 Heroes
Edit: No, prefer "Normal Speed". . . . . . . . (and SP balance mod)
Last edited by resieg; Apr 28, 2022 @ 12:38pm
resieg Apr 29, 2022 @ 11:12am 
Not sure if this is normal - or if I have a problem.

Iguana, you said somewhere that there is a huge step between the levels Lord and King.

Ok, got that, but I never thought, that this step is so incredible big.

With 5 Lords and 2 Kings (on the far end of the map!), I got to a point where it was boring without resistence. Everyone was friendly immediately, and some gave me lots of money now and then (to honour the friendship).

But with 7 Kings, everyone is sort of hostile from start. Stats are double to triple, compared to mine. Neighbours are customized Elfs like me, and friendly humans...

Only with domain I am at same lvl with them.

Is this normal, and I can still compete in the end, or am I just a too bad player against 7 Kings?

Is there a middle thing between Lord and King? Any known way? Now I feel quite lost...
Last edited by resieg; Apr 29, 2022 @ 11:14am
Iguana-on-a-stick Apr 29, 2022 @ 11:48am 
It's normal that they start out stronger. The AI gets big boosts to every income stat, so their gold income, research, and happiness are going to be much bigger than yours.

As long as your domain keeps up you're not actually falling behind.

Hostility, btw, isn't so much a direct consequence of difficulty as it is a consequence of A] your alignment and B] relative strength.

If you play evil most people (including other evil players) are going to hate you. If you're weak, many will attack you whether or not they like you because they're opportunistic bastards. (In this, they are much the same as most human AoW3 players. :-) )
Last edited by Iguana-on-a-stick; Apr 29, 2022 @ 11:50am
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Date Posted: Apr 18, 2022 @ 12:17pm
Posts: 34