Orc Greatsword vs Berserker

[resieg]

Hi, since some time a question came out for me.

I am playing Orc Warlord again (vs 3 Emps), and I got doubts about Berserkers. They have the same attack as Greatswords (15 after race upgrade), but cost double upkeep!

So I guess it is a wise economical decision to massproduce Greatswords from beginning. I guess, the additional HP is not worth the extra upkeep.

But may be someone can convince me otherwise ;)

[Reality]

I'd say the main things are 32 Movement instead of 28 -

Having Charge is a slight damage advantage to Berserker. Berserkers also get +20 Net HP at gold experience instead of +10 Net HP (Universal advantage all Tier 2 Units have over Tier 1)

Movement is often a deciding factor for me but 32 vs 28 isn't enough for me, I'd rather have Monster Hunters (With Explorer Specialition on Leader) with 40.

I think in case of Orcs I would prefer Tier 1s for just running over indepent cities cheaply off of victory rush healing and numbers. That doesn't really favor the Greatsword much over the Basic Spearman due to the Raise Militia Spell though.

[resieg]

I rush both: Militia Spearmen AND Greatsword ;)

Explorer Spec. - I will remember that! Thanks.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

The Berserker only inflicts 1 more damage, true. And 0 more if you pick the greatsword governance upgrade. Charge and Demolisher is nice but not that big a difference. The speed is probably their biggest offensive boost, as Reality mentions.

But defensively, the Berserker is MUCH tougher.

+1 defense and 62 hitpoints vs. 50 is pretty big already. And on top of that, Berserkers gain twice as many hitpoints per medal. (admittedly, they also need more XP per medal, but still.) So a gold medal berserker will have 82 hitpoints vs. 60 for the greatsword. That's some 35% more.

Berserker also gets Tireless on gold medal, which isn't as great for an offensive unit as it is for the phalanx, but still is very helpful to have. And they get Mind Control immunity, which is situational but good for low-res orcs.

Conversely, Greatswords are armoured and Berserkers are not. This means Berserkers are better against enemies with armour-piercing, but can't benefit from Crystal Tree upgrades. Then again, if you have those, you'd probably want to build shocktroopers or black knights instead of greatswords.

So all in all, both the greatsword and the berserker are good units, but I'd definitely pay that extra upkeep for my field armies I expect to gain medals.

Edit: Perhaps a more interesting question is if you want to build Black Knights instead of Berserkers. The cost is more or less the same. The cavalry is even faster, has equal damage with upgrades, and can potentially get guard breaker, polearm, overwhelm, armour piercing, and charge.

They fulfill a different tactical niche, as the berserkers can climb walls and benefit from dungeon upgrades, but in field battles I'd rate the black knights higher. My favourite tier 2 cavalry unit.

[resieg]

Thats some really deep considerations Iguana.
I appreciate that.
And yeah ... "Black Knights" !

[BBB]

Berserkers were, iirc, intended to basically be Cavalry without the Polearm vulnerability.

[pipo.p]

And this answers my question about why they have so much speed. In general, I feel Berserkers so out of place when compared to so-called berserkers in other fantasy settings. They are unarmored, at least, but get tireless so late (or in the end-game). I would better have them sprint in battle, and get an offensive ability that increases or balances their damage against a lower defence or a bonus to enemy retaliation. Also, no bloodlust.

[CNC]

引用自 Iguana-on-a-stick：

The Berserker only inflicts 1 more damage, true. And 0 more if you pick the greatsword governance upgrade. Charge and Demolisher is nice but not that big a difference. The speed is probably their biggest offensive boost, as Reality mentions.

But defensively, the Berserker is MUCH tougher.

+1 defense and 62 hitpoints vs. 50 is pretty big already. And on top of that, Berserkers gain twice as many hitpoints per medal. (admittedly, they also need more XP per medal, but still.) So a gold medal berserker will have 82 hitpoints vs. 60 for the greatsword. That's some 35% more.

Berserker also gets Tireless on gold medal, which isn't as great for an offensive unit as it is for the phalanx, but still is very helpful to have. And they get Mind Control immunity, which is situational but good for low-res orcs.

Conversely, Greatswords are armoured and Berserkers are not. This means Berserkers are better against enemies with armour-piercing, but can't benefit from Crystal Tree upgrades. Then again, if you have those, you'd probably want to build shocktroopers or black knights instead of greatswords.

So all in all, both the greatsword and the berserker are good units, but I'd definitely pay that extra upkeep for my field armies I expect to gain medals.

Edit: Perhaps a more interesting question is if you want to build Black Knights instead of Berserkers. The cost is more or less the same. The cavalry is even faster, has equal damage with upgrades, and can potentially get guard breaker, polearm, overwhelm, armour piercing, and charge.

They fulfill a different tactical niche, as the berserkers can climb walls and benefit from dungeon upgrades, but in field battles I'd rate the black knights higher. My favourite tier 2 cavalry unit.

The orc black knight is such an amazing unit, probably my favourite T2 cavalry. Unfortunately I never find much use for them when I'm playing as an orc, as they rarely seem to factor into my unit compositions other than the ones I start the game with.