Global Assault: overpowered?

[lucibuis]

Is this global spell utterly overpowered? Let's take a look at the final spells:

Age of Deception/Dark Pact: overpowered but required by the nature of the rogue's game

Armageddon: powerful but not overwhelming, it doesn't stop the healing abilties that most stacks have by that time, 80% spirit weakness also not too bad considering many have spirit resistance

The Great Mobilization: powerful but again it buffs the machines, it does not change the game completely

The Wild Hunt: underpowered IMO

Age of Death: this one i never used... I always win before that but yes it does look overpowered

Age of Magic: powerful but not overpowered, two spells summons per turn does not change the game by itself

Then we have global assault. Not even counting the elite manticore riders... this spell causes, if I understand, units to instantly become elite, so we have baby krakens who become krakens, reed serpents from dwellings who become king reed serpents, lesser elementals from wild magic who become elementals, storm sisters who become stunning weapons, etc. Isn't this too much?????? I find these side effects utterly ridiculous... like what even?

[Fay]

80% spirit weakness against a theocrat is HUGE. Fyi.

[lucibuis]

Originally posted by Dragon Priest:

80% spirit weakness against a theocrat is HUGE. Fyi.

but it's not overpowered like global assault, it does not have those ridiculous side effects...

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

My only issue with Global Assault is that it can't fully be disjuncted.

Sure, you can get rid of the main spell, but every unit that's gotten gold medals will keep them. That's not in line with what the other races' ultimate abilities do.

As for the elementals and such: yeah, that's helpful, but it's not THAT big a deal, since it only works on lesser elementals you had when you cast the spell. Any new units you summon won't get gold medals.

It does work with baby krakens and reed serpents from dwellings, though you'd need to build Mature Reed Serpents to get the King version. Baby serpents "only" become Mature. In both cases, they won't have gold medals. (Unless you cast Global Assault a second time.)

All in all, I think that the evolving units are a cool side effect of the spell, but the fact that the bonuses can't be dispelled in any way is a bit much. Still, I doubt it's going to be changed at this point.

[lucibuis]

Ok it works only once on units? Still king reed serpents and krakens in addition to elite manticores, stunning storm sisters... still overpowered imo.

It should work on class units only for it to be at least a bit more fair.

Also, is there a way to mod the descriptoin of a spell in the mod editor? I can't seem to find where to edit the texts

[lavitzakaria]

It goes with the warlord theme. Warlord doesn't have much in the way of healing or morale boost (theocrat) (besides the draft +200), doesn't really have any decent battlfield spells (sorc), or the mobility of the druids spell. Warlord is quality units. Rogues spell can easily spell doom for them. Age of death is ridiculous in unit aquisition. First strike and charge are good but most units already have one or the other. There are many ways of countering a warlord. What would you suggest in place of this? I'd rather not see the warlord neutered like the dreadnought musketeers and cannons because people think one thing is too op. Each group has its strengths and weaknesses. Of it were all the same then it would be no fun.

[Lacho]

In my opinion, all the ultimate spells are OP depending on when are cast. On PVP i consider the most difficult to overcome is age of deception. Global assault can be managed, i think.

If i´m a theocrat, i´ll get gold rank on my support units way faster, can convert anything up to the warbreed with the exception of the berserker or the manticore

If i´m an Archdruid or a Sorceror i can position better units via summon right where i can cause the most damage. For a warlord damage to the economy are harder to take and in general catastropic.

If i´m a necro my units will be gold ranked faster so really no problem. A necro does takes a while to start snowballing, but shift from snowball to avalanche faster than the warlord.

If i´m a rogue simply charm units early game and shadow stalkers in the end.

The dreadnough indeed has an unfavorable matchup. I guess air mastery even the scale a bit thanks to the air elemental

I like theocrats and air mastery. What i do against warlords is mass produce crusaders/martyr combo backed by racial support, that´s cheap to sustain and easy to maintain at 100% health.

If i have two stacks consisting of 3xMartyr 3xCruzader 3xracial support 2xevangelist and one Shrine, the shrine can one shot a manticore.

I mean i consider a warlord will have a harder time deplying against the Theo armies. Abuse of strong will and fear strike crusaders (backed by martyr) is super cheap to pull off.

In the end it should come down to a race

[DreadReapr]

op indeed, but its impossible to balance late game

[Bob]

Lesser Elementals that evolve are hardly OP, the big elementals cost 150CP to summon, while the lesser ones cost 120CP and are unreliable in which one you're going to get. In the end you save 30CP summoning a big elemental in exchange for not being able to pick which one you're going to get.

Stunning storm sisters are also not extremely good, Warlords lack boosts for support units and Storm Sisters are relatively expensive in the Warlord arsenal compared to stuff like High Elf Mounted Archers (which are way faster and more damaging) that gain cost benefits from Training Regimen. Sorcerers are better at the stunning supports game, they can also phase their supports and get their stunning way earlier in the game.

Apart from disjunction not removing all of the benefits of Global Assault I think Global Assault is the weakest class ultimate of them all. Elite Manticores are tough but they're hardly unbeatable, they still suffer from the same weaknesses that all Manticore riders suffer from. No ranged attacks (which is quite unique on a T4, only Giants and Krakens share that), vulnerable to being restricted in movement with stuff like Slayer's Doubt and webs, a lack of useful resistances (most T4 units have at least one or two immunities), and overly reliant on physical damage, so incorporeals are difficult to get past for them.

[DreadReapr]

hah good one bob, dude once u have the global assault its gg.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by DreadReapr:

hah good one bob, dude once u have the global assault its gg.

By the time you cast a T4/endgame spell you should have already won the game really.

Unless you're playing on massive maps with similar skilled opponents ... if you managed to cast an Endgame spell you should be in a game winning position or close to it. Besides, almost every Endgame spell is OP; they just can be mitigated easily compared to Global Assault; where you can't really mitigate it.

[Luqe]

Originally posted by DreadReapr:

hah good one bob, dude once u have the global assault its gg.

unfortunately it's true. boring until when you can barely match 1 stack for another, boring after. playing warlord is boring unless for the 10 turns after you get GA :p

[lucibuis]

just using it right now against an AI warlord emperor who who also casted it... it's brutal, elite manticores, elite titans, pretty much all of the t4 elite with first strike and charge become just brutal... i understand that early game warlord is weaker but still... manticores do lots of critical hits of 65... that kills everything in one one engagement

[Bob]

Still haven't seen any reason to back up the claim that the side-effects that you mentioned (like evolving Baby Serpents or Lesser Elementals) to be OP. I have stated my reasons why I disagree with that, but you haven't provided any arguments. I mean, hitting 65 on a crit is impressive but hardly OP, a lot of units can hit in those ranges on crits. If I play Frostling Dreadnought and combine Frost Tanks with Ice Queens I can also do hit that hard, first expose enemies and break their guard with the Queen, then bring in Frost Tank and blow everything away, and those are T3's, not T4s, and can attack multiple foes at the same time.

[lucibuis]

There is nothing to talk about if you don't see how with global assault, you can build mature serpents that evolve to king reed serpents right away and those have fearsome. Then you can build elite dragons, elite giants, etc. It's just so over the top, they become elite, get first strike and charge, and elite giant or dragon with charge will one shoot kill almost everything... not to talk about how strong are elite manticore riders per se... it's just brutal. Most of those elite units are also immune to mind control.

I get that the warlord has a weaker early game and economy, but the end game is just crazy, i think only the necromancer can actually beat an endgame warlord just because they will benefit from all of those elite ghouls. Also those elite units are almost immune to entangling because of super high defense, so goodbye archdruid. They're also pretty high in resistance so also goodbye sorcerer.

And yes other units can reach 65 critical hits but you need buffs and debuffs to reach that value, for warlord, manticores, phalanx and warbreed can all get those hits very easily. It's really crazy

[Morphic]

Originally posted by lucibuis:

There is nothing to talk about if you don't see how with global assault, you can build mature serpents that evolve to king reed serpents right away and those have fearsome. Then you can build elite dragons, elite giants, etc. It's just so over the top, they become elite, get first strike and charge, and elite giant or dragon with charge will one shoot kill almost everything... not to talk about how strong are elite manticore riders per se... it's just brutal. Most of those elite units are also immune to mind control.

Okay...

1. You can't "build Mature Serpents right away". Unless you have the Naga Dwelling and have built it up or you randomly got a Baby Reed and worked it up normally.

2. Dragons, Giants etc. are all Dwelling Units. What are the chances of you having access to all those at once or even one of them and have they fielded in "good numbers".

3. Dwellings usually don't get Magic City Upgrades, therefore a City with 1 or more Magic City Upgrades will, arugably, field better units than a Dwelling.

4. Dwelling Units are powerful but they aren't nearly as bad as some T4s and T3 combinations. Even if a Warlord gets those and they're Elites, you could have "Normal" ones too. Mix those in with your own T4s or T3s and play "smart" and you can counter his Elite Dwellings.

Originally posted by lucibuis:

I get that the warlord has a weaker early game and economy, but the end game is just crazy, i think only the necromancer can actually beat an endgame warlord just because they will benefit from all of those elite ghouls. Also those elite units are almost immune to entangling because of super high defense, so goodbye archdruid. They're also pretty high in resistance so also goodbye sorcerer.

If you "get" that Warlord has weaker early and economy ... then you wouldn't really be complaining. Having a weak economy naturally is a significant weakness, follow that up with a weak-average Early Game and you should be in an unstable position for quite a while. Your opponents can easily abuse your weakness to get a leg up and begin snowballing you, unless you are more skilled than they are or you took advantage of a mistake they made.

"I think only the Necromancer can beat an endgame Warlord" seriously? Sorcerer with Age of Magic on can mass summon Phantom Warriors and use them to soft-counter Manticores since Manties basically only deal Phys Damage. Throw in a few key spells here and there while mixing your Phantoms with other soft-counters, like Spearmen, and Manties shouldn't be an issue; Combat-wise. The major problem with Manties is their Mobility on the Strategic Map as well as the Tactical one. That's why, Tactically, things like Throw Curse or Slayer's Doubt are huge; even if they fail they reduce their MP.

I mean, I could do 5 more paragraphs lightly covering ways to deal with Manties; even if they are Elites. Though I'm sure someone will do it more eloquently and candid than I. "B-but what about all his Dwelling creatures and Manties!?", well if you allowed a Warlord to get armies of Manticores and high tier Dwelling creatures ... you weren't doing a good job keeping him in check now were you? I mean, it's one thing if you were doing a Large FFA map with 3+ people. Then I could understand how one Warlord could start running away with the game; but so could anyone if left uncontested or only fighting less killed people. If it's a 1v1 situation ... then you were either outplayed by a superior opponent or you don't know the counters to Warlord.