Protection, Resistance, Defense, Skill Protections

[justus_cap]

Looking for clarification if I understand these topics correctly.

DEFENSE-

I believe this relates to physical damage and it is directly subtracted from the amount of non-magical damage a unit does to the unit in question.
*for example the unit does 12 damage to me per attack, my unit has 8 defense so;
12-8= 4 damage gets through per attack.

PHYSICAL PROTECTION (%)-

Things like Shadow Form, offering 60% physical protection. I take this to mean it reduces the amount of non-magical damage. Using the above equation;
12-(12x.6----7.2???)= 3-4?

(Two questions... does the ai round the damage up? down? What happens when you have both of these protections?)

RESISTANCE-

I believe this works just like defense but instead for magical attacks. So if if a unit does 6 frost damage and 6 fire damage (8 resistance).... would this be the equation?;

12-8= 4?

Now say you have 20% frost weakness, I assume the 4 frost damage gets a 20% bonus prior to having resistance taken off? Or is that not the order?

PROTECTION - Things like 20% frost protection. I am guessing it reduces the damage by the specified amount prior to applying your resistance. 100% protection would mean you take no damage from that source. I have seen where some spells can lower a certain resistance but if you have multiple items that would have sent your resistance above 100%(which never happens- they get applied to that reduction so it doesn't "hurt as much" or did my eyes deceive me?)

HERO BUFFS
I know heroes can also apply these buffs through their own skills and spells as well (as well as some units). Another question here would be... if the hero is removed from the battle... do the bonuses they offer their stack through skills go away immediately? I know cast buffs stay... like iron heart, guardian flame etc.

Thanks in advance.

[tvance52]

I walked through status effects here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/226840/discussions/0/4867839654239083486/?ctp=2#c3282573272835724399

For damage, here's how I understand it:

Step 1)

• Physical Damage = 10 + (physical strength - defense)
  
• Non-Physical Damage = 10 + (non-physical strength - resistance)

Step 2) take #1 and randomly give any number in range from 20% more to 20% less.

Step 3) apply protections or weaknesses

Step 4) critical strikes or fumbles. Criticals give the maximum of the above steps as damage and then adds 35%. Fumbles give the minimum of the above steps and then reduces that by 35%.

source: https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com/wiki/Calculations#Status_Effects

Keep in mind:

* All numbers will be rounded to the nearest whole number.

* Damage will always be at least 1 per strike

* Only a Lucky unit triggering the Lucky trait can avoid damage, there is no "0 damage" in the game

Next post will be an example that I'm not entirely sure about.

[tvance52]

So, I'm not entirely sure how elemental damage is accounted for but I think all elemental damage is considered non-physical and therefore checks against resistance.

I hope someone corrects me if I misunderstood that.

So let's take Dwarf Firstborn attacking a Shadow Stalker:

Firstborns have 14 physical, 2 fire per melee strike.
Shadow Stalkers have 11 defense, 11 resistance and 60% physical protection.

M = random damage multiplier up to 20% above or below per strike. (M for multiplier chosen because R for random could be confused for resistance).

M is randomly 12% bonus this time. So M = 1.12.

Physical damage = [10 + (14 - 11)] x M
Non-Physical damage = [10 + (2 - 11)] x M

Physical damage = 13 x 1.12 = 14.56
Non-Physical damage = 1 x 1.12 = 1.12

So now we'll apply protections or weaknesses, in this case 60% physical protection for Shadow Stalkers, and round to the nearest whole number:

PD = 14.56 x 0.6 = 8.736 = 9
NPD = 1.12 =1

So in game you would see 9 physical, 1 fire damage done by the Firstborn to the Shadow Stalker.

Since a critical does the maximum calculation plus 35%, it would be:

PD = [10 + (14 - 11)] x 1.2 = 15.6
NPD = [10 + (2 - 11)] x 1.2 = 1.2

PD = (15.6 x 0.6) x 1.35 = 12.636 = 13
NPD = 1.2 x 1.35 = 1.62 =2

So the critical hit would be 13 physical, 2 fire.

A fumble would be:

PD = [10 + (14 - 11)] x 0.8
NPD = [10 + (2 - 11)] x 0.8

PD = 10.4 x 0.65 = 6.76 = 7
NPD = 1 x 0.65 = 1

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

So, I'm not entirely sure how elemental damage is accounted for but I think all elemental damage is considered non-physical and therefore checks against resistance.

I hope someone corrects me if I misunderstood that.

You are right.

I think your calculations are right in general, except I do not think they use the SAME random multiplier for every damage channel.

You can see this when shooting with an apprentice at a unit without elemental resistances: the numbers for the 3 damage channels will usually be different.

So instead of multiplying all damage by 1.12, it may be that in your example the physical damage gets 0.9 and the fire damage 1.14

Since a critical does the maximum calculation plus 35%, it would be:

Firstly, critical strikes/fumbles are calculated AFTER resistances.

Secondly, I am not entirely sure how the 35% extra works... is it additive or multiplicative? I.e. do we get (damage * 1.2 * 1.35) or do we get (damage * 1.55) ?

Not sure.

Anyway, wiki has an article on it here that is quite clear: https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com/wiki/Calculations#Damage

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Additional answers to OP:

Publicado originalmente por justus_cap:

I have seen where some spells can lower a certain resistance but if you have multiple items that would have sent your resistance above 100%(which never happens- they get applied to that reduction so it doesn't "hurt as much" or did my eyes deceive me?)

They stack over 100%, it's just that the additional resistance doesn't do anything.

So yes, if you get 120% blight resistance and then get hit by Weakness, you stick at 60% blight resistance. If you had 100% resistance you would only have had 60% left.

HERO BUFFS
I know heroes can also apply these buffs through their own skills and spells as well (as well as some units). Another question here would be... if the hero is removed from the battle... do the bonuses they offer their stack through skills go away immediately? I know cast buffs stay... like iron heart, guardian flame etc.

As far as I know bonuses granted through hero skills are gone immediately.

You can see this with abilities like Divine Justiciars that grant your army resurgence: any units that die after your hero dies stay dead. But the units that died before that, including the hero himself, come back.

[tvance52]

Publicado originalmente por Iguana-on-a-stick:

except I do not think they use the SAME random multiplier for every damage channel.

So instead of multiplying all damage by 1.12, it may be that in your example the physical damage gets 0.9 and the fire damage 1.14

Good point. I got so fixated on the calculations I forgot to mention that.

Publicado originalmente por Iguana-on-a-stick:

Since a critical does the maximum calculation plus 35%, it would be:

Firstly, critical strikes/fumbles are calculated AFTER resistances.

I'm tired and may not have explained it the way I intended. In the first post for Step #4 I mention "maximum (or minimum) of the above steps", which includes protections/weaknesses.

In my example I thought I did calculate it after the protection was applied. Did I miss something? I'm starting to fall asleep so I may have missed something.

Secondly, I am not entirely sure how the 35% extra works... is it additive or multiplicative? I.e. do we get (damage * 1.2 * 1.35) or do we get (damage * 1.55) ?

Not sure.

Since the wiki said "dealing the maximum of the above calculation in damage, with an additional 35% boost." I take that to mean 35% is applied to the previous total, so total x 35%. I may be too tired to think about it clearly, though.

I started working on the post 90 minutes ago and things got fuzzier as I got more sleepy.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Publicado originalmente por tvance52:

In my example I thought I did calculate it after the protection was applied. Did I miss something? I'm starting to fall asleep so I may have missed something.

Your calculation goes:

PD = [10 + (14 - 11)] x 1.2 = 15.6 (base damage)
PD = (15.6 x 0.6) = 9.36 (after resistance)
PD = 9.36 x 1.35 = 12.636 = 13 (with critical bonus)

I think it goes

PD = [10 + (14 - 11)] x 1.2 = 15.6 (base damage)
PD = 15.6 x 1.35 = 21.06 (with critical bonus)
PD = 21.06 * 0.6 = 12.636 = 13 (after resistance)

i.e. we first multiply in the critical damage, THEN we apply resistance.

Doesn't make a difference unless rounding gets applied midway, because it's multiplicative. But this is what the wiki says.

Also, go to bed. It's my lunch break over here so I have an excuse. :-)

[justus_cap]

I am sorry but I am not entirely sure I understand what the two of you mean by "random" multiplier? Is this something totally arbitrary? And don't stay up on my account, this is by no means a pressing questions, I've survived a long time without the answer... I can wait another day or two!

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

It means random.

Surely you've noticed that if two identical units attack one another, the resulting damage is won't be the same?

And surely you've noticed that the damage in the tooltip preview is in a range? Like if you hover over an enemy unit it will say something like "4-6 [damage icon]"

That 4-6 is the range. Your (damage - resistance/defense) + 10 probably came to 5. Plus or minus 20% means that in practice your damage will be between 4 and 6. It's random.

[tvance52]

Publicado originalmente por justus_cap:

I am not entirely sure I understand what the two of you mean by "random" multiplier? Is this something totally arbitrary?

As Iguana mentioned, that range from 80% to 120% applied to the first calculation is random. The game randomly chooses a number in that range for each strike as a multiplier and one strike it may be 87% (0.87 multiplier), the next 107 % (1.07 multiplier), and the third at 100% (1.0 multiplier).

You have no influence over it and cannot do anything to change it.

[justus_cap]

Ah yes, the range. I assumed it was like D&D where you roll a die... but obviously this calculation has a bit more to it than that. I'm with you now.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

The good bit about the game is that you do not NEED to know any of it. +1 defense is roughly -1 damage taken, you can see damage inflicted in the previews. It's all pretty straightforward without having to study these rules.

But if you want to know you can dig deeper.

[pipo.p]

Also, it's not useful to use base damage range to understand those mechanics that are explained in the links. Using mean damage (ie: 5 for a 4-6 range) is enough, for example to evaluate "hidden" resistances just by looking at tooltips. You can this way evaluate resistances of wall elements, if need be.

[justus_cap]

Publicado originalmente por Iguana-on-a-stick:

The good bit about the game is that you do not NEED to know any of it. +1 defense is roughly -1 damage taken, you can see damage inflicted in the previews. It's all pretty straightforward without having to study these rules.

But if you want to know you can dig deeper.

The reason I wanted to understand was to (prior to selecting them) evaluate items, level up skills, buffs, and certain de-buffs as to their overall impact. I like that it's small but after 20+ levels on a hero, for example, they tend to be more significant if you focus. I had read that the protections were much more impactful which I am starting to believe. Both in cost and effect. When I first started I went by how the item was ranked... legendary, mythical, etc... but multiple 100% resistances seem to be much stronger than a +3 defense, for example.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Hm, that's one thing to be aware of yeah. Though I still say you don't need to know all the mechanics to realise that stuff.

One thing that is less than obvious about defense and resistance is that the more you have of it, the more valuable they become.

This is just a function of the general math: if an enemy used to inflict 8-12 damage against your unit and you get +1 defense, that'll become roughly 7-12 or about a 10% drop. But if an enemy was only inflicting 1-2 damage against you and you get another +1, it'll drop to 1 damage flat, which reduces average damage by 33%. (1.5 average goes to 1) A much bigger gain.

Obviously getting 100% resistance is valuable, but you don't really need to know the nitty-gritty of the rules to realise that, it's kind of in the name. The non-obvious part is that it'll also protect against status effects of that type. (i.e. 100% blight resistance can't be poisoned, 100% spirit resistance can't be mind controlled.)

Whether 100% resistance to X is better than 3 defense really depends on the circumstances and what you're fighting, which I like.