Why should I pick up AoW III over Endless Legend?

[noisyturtle]

Why should I get Age Of Wonders III over Endless Legend for my next fantasy 4x game?

[~ Fabulous ~]

EL dont have tactical combat and dire penguins...but seriously thou, the only modern game that is similar to aow is Fallen Enchantress, EL is more like civ if anything

[Outis]

To me Endless legend was too scripted with the story missions which had the same character do the same missions everytime. At least that is how I remember it.

AoW3 is different everytime and the goals are set by yourself. It is much more of a sand-box game to me than EL.

I only played EL a few times and never was hooked on it. AoW3 hooked me from the day it was released. I will probably not buy EL2 when it comes out, just like I did not buy Endless Space 2 when it came out.

But I will pre-order AoW:Planetfall as soon as the opportunity rises.

Just my opinion on the two games. AoW 3 much more fun and you create your own story compared to EL.

[dcain3456]

Endless Legend is basically Civilization with fantasy units. In fact, the latest version of Civilization flat-out stole many of their concepts from Endless Legend.
Age of Wonders is essentially Heroes of Might & Magic with better tactical combat.

[nobodys home]

I was torn between EL and AoW3 as well so I bought them both. Gave 99 hrs to EL...honestly a decent game, some of the independents you can ally with are good. But the combat *barf* you don't even start with all of your units on the tactical battle map.

Then I gave AoW3 a try and haven't gone back. It truly is combat oriented and man is it fun. I kid you not I would rather have one battle taking a city than win on diety playing Civ 5 again...speaking of, haven't gone back to that one in a while either. ;)

[Ronnie]

I would pass on them both actually... Sci Fi with weird resource names trying to be like a AD&D type of game it sorta reminds me of Albion a 90s rpg sci fi game gone bad and I tried Endless Legend for a very brief time and never went back and For Age of Wonders 3 although I have more hours in I found it not fun with Unrealistic Combat of Warriors shooting fireballs with 100% success rate and fighter type of units who do not regenerate h.p and cannot block damage with a shield and mages who can use bows to name a few flaws of the game and how units can get unlimited levels vs hero units its more or less a dum down version of a rpg 4x strategy game compared to real realism rules. On a huge map of Age of Wonders 3 your heroes can reach level 30 before likely exploring less then 50% of the world if you explore treasure sites so it makes you wonder if the Devs even tested that. The end game of Age of Wonders 3 is more or less a Tier 4 Spam... What would of made that game better is if your units can get real levels and you can improve your units in different ways with maybe 50-100 possible upgrades to really specialize a unit of your army of your control to upgrade your units instead of a dum down version of gaining a unit level with a star promotion that way tier 1 units can really specialize with upgrades of your choosing or tier 2 units etc but instead it becomes a tier 4 spam you have to deal with. When tier 1 units or Tier 2,3,4 units specialize in a way of how u decide to upgrade their abilities will make a unpredictable experience instead of an expected experience. I mean imagine a tier 1 unit whom specializes in blocking and upgrades that ability a lot in his levels making it insane to bring him down or a unit that has high magic resistance this would of been a much better approach but instead as I said its a tier 4 spam no fun there with warriors casting fireballs that hit 100% of the time etc etc. Legendary Heroes Fallen Enchantress does a better job at giving the gamer realism rules instead of a dum down version.


Go pick up a good Rpg game instead heck their realism rules got it right with Divinity Original Sin,Pillars of Eternity or maybe even Wasteland 2 or the Legend of Grimrock,Lords of Xulima Wizardry 8 and those other Dungeon Crawlers it would seem all of these other games got it right for more realism vs Age of Wonders 3... Or if your stuck on 4x Legendary Heroes Fallen Enchantress is the best for realism.Or maybe try out The Battle for Wesnoth that is a good game not a sandbox game but more realistic then Age of Wonders 3 since units can dodge attacks and it is free on steam.Also Battle Brothers would be a much better pick then Age of Wonders 3 as they have perm death when your brothers die they stay dead I like that vs save scumming games and combat is much more realistic in that game with wounds etc. terrain advantages and disadvantages and Also the Storm Guard is a good one as well with perm death it is more aligned with AD&D and is very realistic in terms of dodging and blocking attacks and graphics are better vs Age of Wonders 3 and does all the same stuff in combat like Age of Wonders 3 does.Your not going to see Warriors cast fireballs in that game that hit 100% of the time or mages who use a bow and arrow :) Some may think I am negative in my writing but I have praised likely over 8+ other games compared to Age of Wonders 3 people who are negative say negative things about even good games as that is their nature. This is the truth now Age of Wonders 3 is a medicore game but their are many other titles worth playing in my opinion that do a better job at making the gamer feel their is more realism to their games which boosts the fun factor. If Triump studios decides to listen and make a future fantasy 4x consider what I have said but if not that may suggest ones ego holding in the way. Good company's will accept criticism that can help in better their games vs hearing a sugar coated message. I am not trying to be disrespectful but in fact trying to help anyways that is what I think.

[aclyte]

In short:
AoW focuses mostly on tactical battles (more Heroes-like)
EL focuses mostly on strategy (more Civ-like)
Games are realy quite different

[pipo.p]

Ronnie, did you ever tried Disciples 2? Tactical combat was very static but yet quite subtle, and the units'abilities fit so much the characters.
Yes, the units in AoW3 are like clones when you compare races (like in former games), but the race/leader combination induce you to play differently, using differently this little unit ability, that buff combat spell, or world-wide spell to your advantage.

Another thing is to stick too much to our teenager gaming habits! For instance, AD&D proved to be both inspiring and limiting, both opening our mind to another fantasy setting and making universal rules for others to stick to for decades. In the end, it was very rock-paper-scissor, simply due to the fact that there were no computers back then, and that a teen GM's mind had to manage all those rules, and tell the tale at the same time. I'm not saying that AoW3 is not rock-paper-scissor a bit too (with such abilities like shield, crush, charge, phalanx, ...), but it is in a more realistic way, I think (simply because horses can run).

Also, when you say that shields don't protect well, they do in fact reduce frontal damage, except when the opponent can bash shields. Other abilities emulate dodge/evasion as regards to missile attacks and opportunistic attacks. To this matter, I find AoW3 (2,....) very similar to Battle for Wesnoth. Des never hesitated to design yet another ability to suit an unit, even if it ended very close to that of another unit, yet just a little different (if only by the name).

[BBB]

Ronnie I wonder why you bother. :O

And you keep comparing different genres of games.

We'e had this chat before.

Battlebrothers is a mercenary management simulation, the whole point is to be fairly Xcom like in that people dying is a big deal.


AoW has you managing an empire/kingdom. One death isn't suposed to make a difference>

Anyway, you remind me of the proverb of the clock going backwards, still correct twice a day.

It appears devs heard you about lower tier powers because Planetfall has a modular weapons system designed almost specifically to maintain lower tier unit viability, even more obviously than in AoW3.

Speaking of which, I wonder if you ever played Aow1 or Shadow magic, because the unit balance in AoW3 is MUCH better.

PLUS, you keep talking about realistic combat, and I thought that discussion had been settled. Quick clue as you seemnot to remember, key words:

Internal consistency
Abstraction
Suspension of disbelief.



Not a single one of the games you list has realistic combat, especially not Fallen Enchantress.

[Mojo Amok]

I'm fairly new to AoW 3, but I find with the right settings configuration, I can overcome a lot of common complaints like 'Tier 4 Spam' or 'Tedious End Game™.'

I'd hate both of those elements too, but if I set the game to the 'Adventure' preset, make a few minor changes, disable city founding and then go with the 'Seals' victory condition, the pacing is excellent and the endgame is extremely engaging (with Tier 1 troops still being quite viable too). Even the strategic AI seems to do reasonably well under these circumstances (or maybe I'm just bad at the game? ).

There's probably some other settings that would work out as well.

I didn't find that I had the ability to cater Endless Legend in the same manner - while I did enjoy it, I also got over it a lot faster and didn't feel as engaged. The combat, in particular, is a pale shadow compared to AoW 3, even if it is still better than the typical 4X single unit on the map model.

[noisyturtle]

AoW is getting a lot more support across the threads I've asked, and a big part of this always seems to be the engaging combat. People repeatedly mention how tactically engaging AoW 3 is.

EL seems to be mostly liked and the closest thing to a traditional 4x, but the common complaints were the easy difficulty and people losig interest faster vs AoW.

I aslo asked some folks about Thea, which everyone universially says is very unique in setting and worth playing for that alone, but deviates from traditional 4x formulae and has some balancing issues. Some complaints about repetitiveness as well.

Other titles reccommended multiple times were Warlock, and the Fall From Heaven 2 mod for CIV4.

Overall some very helpful recommendations and insight. I did wind up buying AoW 3 on GoG and it's fantastic, but now plan on picking up some of the other ones when the Steam Sale rolls around. Thanks all!

[sheep from hell]

thea is really good and unique, but the controls are straight out of hell making easy things a pain :D

warlock is good, but is basically a civ game with battle focus, but lacks totally of tactical battles which isnt the best thing

i would still go with aow3

edit:
oh you bought it. good choice, have fun!
ONE OF US, ONE OF US

[BBB]

Thea is a very interesting thing. I don't know how to classify it as a game, it's more like what I've heard King of Dragon Pass is like, and less a 4x game.


ONE OF US!

[Ronnie]

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the original poster

Originally posted by BBB:

Ronnie I wonder why you bother. :O

And you keep comparing different genres of games.

We'e had this chat before.

Battlebrothers is a mercenary management simulation, the whole point is to be fairly Xcom like in that people dying is a big deal.


AoW has you managing an empire/kingdom. One death isn't suposed to make a difference>

Anyway, you remind me of the proverb of the clock going backwards, still correct twice a day.

It appears devs heard you about lower tier powers because Planetfall has a modular weapons system designed almost specifically to maintain lower tier unit viability, even more obviously than in AoW3.

Speaking of which, I wonder if you ever played Aow1 or Shadow magic, because the unit balance in AoW3 is MUCH better.

PLUS, you keep talking about realistic combat, and I thought that discussion had been settled. Quick clue as you seemnot to remember, key words:

Internal consistency
Abstraction
Suspension of disbelief.



Not a single one of the games you list has realistic combat, especially not Fallen Enchantress.

[Ronnie]

I only tried Disciples 1 if I recall its been awhile its an ok game sorta like Heroes of MIght & Magic its a bit old and dated though.There are better games to play though.

Originally posted by pipo.p:

Ronnie, did you ever tried Disciples 2? Tactical combat was very static but yet quite subtle, and the units'abilities fit so much the characters.
Yes, the units in AoW3 are like clones when you compare races (like in former games), but the race/leader combination induce you to play differently, using differently this little unit ability, that buff combat spell, or world-wide spell to your advantage.

Another thing is to stick too much to our teenager gaming habits! For instance, AD&D proved to be both inspiring and limiting, both opening our mind to another fantasy setting and making universal rules for others to stick to for decades. In the end, it was very rock-paper-scissor, simply due to the fact that there were no computers back then, and that a teen GM's mind had to manage all those rules, and tell the tale at the same time. I'm not saying that AoW3 is not rock-paper-scissor a bit too (with such abilities like shield, crush, charge, phalanx, ...), but it is in a more realistic way, I think (simply because horses can run).

Also, when you say that shields don't protect well, they do in fact reduce frontal damage, except when the opponent can bash shields. Other abilities emulate dodge/evasion as regards to missile attacks and opportunistic attacks. To this matter, I find AoW3 (2,....) very similar to Battle for Wesnoth. Des never hesitated to design yet another ability to suit an unit, even if it ended very close to that of another unit, yet just a little different (if only by the name).

[terry]

Ronnie you seem to be saying that AOW isnt realistic because mages shoot bows and warriors shoot fireballs(among other reasons but i dont like walls of text). By all means please tell me at what point it was real that mages that actually used magic existed and at what point was anybody really able to shoot a fireball from their hands.
Here is a clue for you, even D&D was a fantasy universe(not real)