Shadow Stalkers are the most ridiculously OP unit in the game - need nerfed for balance

[Dunadd]

Shadow Stalkers are the ONLY elemental unit to have full resistance to two types of damage (blight and cold) , 60% physical damage protection AND the chance to freeze opponents on every strike in melee, while having NO vulnerabilities to ANY type of damage.

Every other elemental is vulnerable to some damage type.

Add to that that they get 'freeze enemy' chance on every strike in melee from recruit ( not one medal required) and then several other abilities as they level and they are by far and away the most OP unit for their tier in the entire game.

Which is why if you put any kind of AI players in on a huge map and play out a long game, the rogue player will win every time with hordes of ridiclously OP shadow stalkers that don't even require much production or money or mana to produce.

And i'm not saying that because i don't like rogues. I like playing elf rogues and having elf bards and assassins. But shadowstalkers are ludicrous. I think they only have these abilities and resistances from the get go so that the Elven Court campaign is made easier so people keep playing because it's easy when you have them, and tell their friends to buy the game too.

There is only even one (very new) mod ever made that has any units as ludicrously OP as Shadow Stalkers are - and everyone tells the mod maker his units are OP. We should be telling the game makers Shadow Stalkers are OP too and need a heavy blow from the nerf bat.

[Stormwind]

No. Rogues have no T4 unit.

If you nerf stalker, you nerf rogues. Rogues are not OP, at least according to stats of the best players against each other. You will just render them unplayable. How is a rogue going to stand up against T4 units when the best they have is a nerfed T3?

[MrNo]

For the record....


Shadow Stalkers receive Inflict Freezing Cold at gold medal, which gives them a percent chance to freeze on hit (not a particularly good one either... checks against 8 frost resistance...). The only way they're freezing in melee combat is if the rogue has managed to get Dark Pact up and running, a T7 empire upgrade which, iirc, is the most expensive tech that rogue can research, providing a buff to all of their class units (except scoundrels, because nobody likes scoundrels). That upgrade grants shadow stalkers Frost Aura (and Shadowstep), causing them to have a chance to freeze enemies that attack them (which, by the way, checks against *9* frost resist, big whoop) and dealing a small amount of cold damage.

A rogue that has reached this point has nearly exhausted their tech tree (and is therefore in the extreme lategame), or executed a very lucky and expensive tech rush that they should have been punished for long before they got to it.

Dark Pact also increases class-unit upkeep by 25%.

Shadow Stalkers are expensive to produce at 200g 40m; vastly moreso than other T3s (Phalanx is 140g, 30m; Cannon is 130g, 20m; Bone collector is 180g; Evangelist is 150g, 30m; Shaman is 130g, 30m; Node Serpent is 120m + 120CP, did I miss anyone?).

[Gloweye]

Ah, the taste of salt about shadow stalkers...it's been to long.

No, they dont get freezing from recruit, they get it at elite. They can get Frost Aura, but only if the owning rogue researches the 4K research tech named Dark Pact. It's not just the most expensive Tech rogues have, it's the most expensive tech period.

Also, that rediculous plan you talk about with the campaign doesn't work like that. If you get Stalkers, you're generally doing something wrong - and being far to slow.

The problem with stalkers is, that they can be hard countered pretty easily. Frostlings, for example. They also suck against undead. yeti's. Most machines.

Lets have a look at how class X kills stalkers.

Theocrat: However, you got plenty spirit damage. Flank it a bit. Position a crusader in guard mode so that he can only attack that - which doesn't do much as you're a defender. Then flank it more. later on, your exalted are excellent - they get nice elemental damage that the stalker doesn't resist, and they have resurgence. Shrines of Smiting simply decimate stalkers. A shrine with 5 devout units next to it has a decent chance to 1-shot a recruit stalker.

Druid: One of the tougher ones. Entangle doesn't work, so that sucks. But Stalkers only have 60 HP....just flanking it with a few hunters works miracles(get monster slayer as a bonus, which doesn't completely offset incorporeal, but it does help a lot). Throw in a shock serpent, even a baby, for a flank to deal rather decent damage. Eldritch Animal also got a few additional damage types. Later on, Horned Gods' Light works miracles, and the stalkers will be hitting them for laughable damage.

Dreadnought: Now were getting somewhere. Cannons are Physical, but still hurt them quite a bit. Flame Tanks are your best solution tho - massive AOE damage. Build a ton of these if the stalkers are massed. Even if they attack you - they dont deal much damage, but still often take 15+ damage if they blow one up. Juggernauts are incredible as well - they're lucky if they can hit you for over 5 damage per attack, while your mortar decimates them, especially at close range.

Warlord: If you have no racial damage, warbreeds are probably your best bet, because the stalkers can't really kill them that fast. Also, you'll outnumber the rogue, so flank away. I've also always found mounted archers effective.

Necromancer: Well, undead can freeze, but they got 40% frost resistance - 100% if you happen to be Frostling. This already reduces stalker damage by 25%. You're also immune to backstab, so there goes a good damage bonus they used to have. Just flank them even more's general the solution. Stalkers are kinda expensive, and you should outnumber them quite a bit.

Sorcerer: With your shock damage, go wild. Also, incorporeeal phantasms might take a lot of frost damage, they can't freeze. Use them to set up a flank by node serpents, or to flank them with apprentice ranged damage.

Nope, looks like all classes have their methods.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Shadow Stalkers are one of the more easily spammable units in the game, which can be annoying in games that go on for a very long time. Sure, they're expensive, but when you're fighting an AI with huge income bonuses that need not make much of a difference.

And there are indeed few *hard* counters available.

That said, by the time Stalkers with Dark Pact abound, you'll have end-game stuff of your own in play, including ultimate spells like Global Assault or Age of Magic, not to mention plenty of high-level heroes.

Gloweye's advice on specific counters is very good. One thing I'll add, though, is that an archdruid will struggle doubly against them: not only do his units provide fewer counters, but he's weaker in the end-game in general.

Oh, and if you expect a single player game to stretch on for a very long time, consider taking Grey Guard Master as specialisation and get Cardinal Culling. It gives all units of a certain type 40% physical weakness... and it stacks.

8 Shadow Stalkers in an enemy army? By round 2/3 they'll have 20% Physical Weakness, not Protection. That makes them Halflings instead of ghosts. And it can't be disjuncted, just dispelled one single Stalker at a time.

[sinobas]

They are a very tough unit, especially because you might encounter them early in the game when you don't have higher tier units. But if you attack them with things they have no immunity to, they aren't that hard to kill. So basically, if you're playing against a rogue, be sure to have some fire/spirit/shock units. Human Priest, Forge Preists, storm sisters...