Hero Skills and Stacking

[Davadin]

I have a few questions about hero skills and stacking.

-My current hero already has "Vision Range Upgrade" from.... an empire skill(?) I think. She's being offered to buy the skill for 1 hero point. Will it stack, and give me +2 vision? Or will it be wasted?


-In another game, my hero has martial arts, which I bought for him as a skill. However- a new empire upgrade will give it to him for free. Will it refun my skill points? If not- do we think it should, as a game improvement?


-Does "Free Movement" only apply to the Stategic map, or does it have tactical implications too?

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

- Some upgrades stack, some don't.

Vision Range is one of those that stack. If you can get a bunch of them (from items, skills, mounts, etc.) you can have a hero who sees as far as a watchtower. Very useful.

Other upgrades that stack include Life Steal, all elemental resistances, and fast healing.

- Specific, one-off skills like Martial Arts do not stack. Warlords get Martial Arts both as a hero upgrade and empire skill. Researching the latter renders the former void. It does not refund skillpoints. As to whether it should? I don't know. The skill is pretty cheap and you can get it MUCH earlier than you can research it. So it can still be worthwhile.

It's helpful to remember what skills can be rendered redundant later, though. For example: Charge Command (Warlord Skill) is rendered redundant by Global Assault. (Warlord Ultimate spell.) So is First Strike. Martial Arts is rendered redundant by Martial Arts training. Rogue's Armor Piercing is rendered redundant if he also takes the Stronger than Steel ability. (Unless someone else becomes the stack leader, as discussed in the other post.)

Honestly though, most of these aren't too big of a deal. By the time you get spells like Global Assault, the game is likely to be almost over anyway.

- Free Movement applies only to the strategic map. All units on the tactical map move equally fast. (Except Tigrans, who are faster.)

[Davadin]

If only because you're so thorough- was that the complete list of redundant skills and abilities, or a sampling? It's true that in this game I haven't YET ever felt so pushed as to be desperately wanting my 2 skill points back. But making heroes that I'm proud of is both a lot of fun and simply good strategy. It's fairly obnoxious for a Warlord leader to be teching himself into obsolescence.

[Doombringer]

Martial Arts is worth taking, even though you can get it for free later...
It makes a big difference, is cheap, and you get it much earlier (level 3 for your leader is like day 5 or something, depends on game settings) than the tech (which is tier 5).

It's sort of the same reason Stunning Touch can be useful on a sorceror hero, even though Inflict Stun pretty much makes it redundant.
Early game matters more, as any advantage you get is compounded over time.

Some stacking skills have limits (lifesteal 4x, lucky 2x, volunteer 2x)

[Davadin]

You know- I appreciate people rehashing that thought, though it's sort of an obvious up-front benefit that I'm capable of weighing myself >.>

In the game where it's relevant, I got Martial Arts on a hero about 2 turns before it showed up in the research queue. I honestly could have waited and saved those points.


I do appreciate the info on redundancy and stacking, though. Thanks to each of you.

[Davadin]

Do things like "Undead Slayer" stack? Can you get that skill multiple times?

[Bob]

Originally posted by Davadin:

Do things like "Undead Slayer" stack? Can you get that skill multiple times?

Those don't. They stack with each other (as in, if a unit has both Undead and Monster and you have both Monster Slayer and Undead Slayer, they stack), but they don't stack with themselves. As far as I know there isn't really a hard line on these whether they stack or not in general, but the Slayer skills don't. I do know Demolisher does stack with itself.

[Doombringer]

backstab stacks (forgot about it earlier)

[Davadin]

Hmmm... Kinda a shame that the game has such mixed rules, and the UI doesn't do a good job of relaying what's up for any given skill.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Davadin:

Hmmm... Kinda a shame that the game has such mixed rules, and the UI doesn't do a good job of relaying what's up for any given skill.

It's one of the few faults still with the game. Demolisher shows the amount of times the skill is present in the unit panel which is a good indication that it stacks, but not all skills that stack show that.