How is Elven Court a campaign for beginners?!?

[philosoraptorgames]

I've tried ramdom maps a bit as well as put a LOT of time and effort into trying to make progress in Elven Court, and there's simply no comparison. Elven Court is RIDICULOUSLY difficult and not even a tiny bit newcomer-friendly! You WILL get curb-stomped on your first play through the second through fourth maps (at minimum; that's as far as I've gotten), sometimes so quickly and decisively that you barely even learn anything from the experience.

I'm playing them anyway because I now hate this campaign personally and therefore get a lot of satisfaction out of it when I finally do beat one of those maps, but a lot of people would, I think, have given up in frustration long before reaching the point I'm at now. This is not how you want to introduce people to your game. Why is THIS beast, of all things, the recommended campaign for newcomers? Like seriously, is this some kind of joke on the part of the developers?

[Gloweye]

It's got the tutorial level in front.

But I agree, about now it's general knowledge that none of the campaigns are for beginners. Mostly, this is due to the AI being improved over time, while the campaign was originally build for the dumber version.

So yes, anytime new people ask, everyone here will tell them to do the tutorial level, and then go play random maps. Campaign is for people interested in the challenge or the lore.

[Lars]

But they are satisfying to finally beat, that's for sure.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Yeah, we're always advising people to play the tutorial, then random maps, and only THEN the campaigns.

If at all. The original two aren't that great, either story-wise or gameplay-wise, as they lack many of the new features from the expansions and the innovative gameplay challenges of the expansion campaigns.

[The Cure]

Yeah, the campaigns are trash. You pretty much have to rush in every singe mission. Which gets boring and tedious after a few of them.

[Gloweye]

*sigh*

No, the campaigns aren't trash and you don't have to rush. You can easily complete them exploring every map completely. That's what I did, on Hard.

[Fatewalking]

Originally posted by jaccovandorpGloweye:

*sigh*

No, the campaigns aren't trash and you don't have to rush. You can easily complete them exploring every map completely. That's what I did, on Hard.

Seconded. The campaigns are decent, although the expansion campaigns do have added features. There is no need to rush or to turtle.

[The Cure]

Originally posted by jaccovandorpGloweye:

*sigh*

No, the campaigns aren't trash and you don't have to rush. You can easily complete them exploring every map completely. That's what I did, on Hard.

Yeah, they're trash, yeah you're forced to rush.

[Gloweye]

No, you don't. And I've completed them all on Hard, so I know what im talking about. You clearly dont.

[The Cure]

They're trash, random map and multi is the only way to go in AOWIII.

[philosoraptorgames]

Well, I'd dispute any claim that you can "easily" beat them and especially if it's suggested that this can be done without *some* element of rushing. Like, on the one I'm on now, I have no idea how holding your third and fourth cities is even possible no matter how good you are or what strategy you use. The enemy hits you with more succubi than you have total units on that island long before there is any possible way you could build up a comparable force. Whatever success I've had on that map has been due to hitting their cities on the big odd-shaped island south of there as early as possible. If you're saying it's possible to win that map via leisurerly exploration without at least some element of running at the enemy like your ass is on fire, I straight up don't believe you.

On the other hand, @The Cure, saying "They're trash" over and over conveys only one piece of information that saying it once doesn't, namely that you lack the ability to articulate an actual argument. Unless you're going to add something of actual substance I'm going to politely request that you knock it off, as you've accomplished everything that can be accomplished here by your current methods.

[Gloweye]

Well, turtling definitely ISN'T viable, I admit that. For the Sapphire Archipelago, I believe I completed it like 50 turns ?

First off, keep in mind that Isabella starts massive compared to you, having like 10 cities at the start. However, you got a couple really useful heroes to make use of, and you should abuse that for all that it's worth. I put Sundren in one stack, and had the other stack leading the charge, much doom-stack like. You get two Fire Giants early on, and since Nomlik is respecced, you really have no excuse not to use Divine Justicars. As long as Sundren is not in the stack, and Nomlik has most leadership skills, he will lead the party. Have that along with Reskar, and whatever two units you can have along aside it, those slots are kind of free. However, one of the best options is Spider Queens - they're on your starting location and Reskar can have Befriend Animal, and Sundren can have Charm, so those are really good options. Trolls as well if you decide to go evil, which, honestly, is the better option here. So a couple of T3's to fill out that stack. Also, save some upgrade points for Reskar if you have the chance, since both Regrowth and Call Lightning are pretty strong.

Capture your starting cities, shouldn't be an issue. Then, since you have a strong stack and Isabella has a lot of cities but not yet a strong army, you should find an opportunity to embark and move over to that main island. There's like 4 or 5 cities on there, and there's nothing able to stand in your way if you decide to take them. After you capture those, which should probably be around turn 20, you got your rest moment and can build up. As this point, you can get enough economy going to even drive Isabella from the seas, but IMHO it's just not worth the effort.

Here's how I did it in a bit more detail:
http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Gloweye/Elven_Court_-_The_Sapphire_Archipelago

(If you get Groshak instead of Nomlik, do NOT underestimate Thunderstorm. Also, Sundren probably becomes your best party leader, so take her along. Total Awareness is totally badass, and she'll probably be your primary melee powerhouse.)

[DJTron]

I personally found the commonwealth one easier. I've gotten to the final level in the commonwealth campaign, but can't get past the second level of the elven court one

[Arrrtyom]

Anyway, for the Sapphire Archipelago map, it's really easy if you have wyverns / flying mounts for your heroes. I basically just flew around with a draconian shaman and hunter (starting army), and it was really easy to travel around since they have mountaineering/swimming and everything else for terrains. And your heroes are flying, taking all of the island cities suddenly becomes really easy and fast.

Sieging isn't much of a problem since the AI can be tricked into an unfavorable ranged battle. And if you have healing (Nomlik), you can basically poke the AI to death.

Although, I'm not sure if heroes have resurgence on Hard. So it might be tricker, but as long as you have healing it should be fine.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Heroes do not have resurgence on hard.

Here's the thing about the campaigns: the difficulty really depends on how strong your heroes are.

There are caps on how far you can level them each mission, but it's easy to neglect levelling newer heroes so they'll be useless on the next map.

It also depends on how you level your heroes. Select a bunch of weak abilities, and every subsequent map may be more difficult. (At least they no longer get patched halfway through, like when I played the Commonwealth campaign and suddenly couldn't cast Chaos Rift anymore with my max level sorceress. That was a lot of wasted character points.)

The trickiest bit, though, is magic items. Getting good magic items can make a huge difference. In part, this depends on scouring every treasure site on the early maps. If you win too quickly, you suffer later on. (The easiest way to do that is to weaken the AI first so you don't get overwhelm, then go explore, and then finish the map.)

But it also depends on luck. One playthrough you might find a bunch of mythical items like Manticore or Gryphon mounts, armour that makes you immune to almost everything, etc. But someone else might get get a couple of Kraken and a Frost Missile spell that will be lost the next mission.

[Arrrtyom]

Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:

The trickiest bit, though, is magic items. Getting good magic items can make a huge difference. In part, this depends on scouring every treasure site on the early maps. If you win too quickly, you suffer later on. (The easiest way to do that is to weaken the AI first so you don't get overwhelm, then go explore, and then finish the map.)

Heh heh I always do this in games like this. Oh, I've won? Reload, plonk a huge army outside the AI's last town, and proceed to explore the rest of the map! Not to mention you can totally spam the AI's last city with all the strategic spells you have and laugh like an evil dictator as you earthquake the poor metropolis into a village.