Elf Campaign Mission 3 Help?

[LVmember]

So I am currently on the Elf Campaign mission 3 where I am controlling the goblins. Whenever I try to attack the Human faction they always send flame tanks and lots of canons at me. I would like to know what is the best strategy to beat this level?

[Gloweye]

You've probably been to slow earlier. You really don't have time to build up here. You should basically spread across the eastern half of the map like a plague, complete every question asap, then mass everythign to the dreadnought at marching speed, and attack right away.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

In more general terms, facing a dreadnought with a theocrat can be tricky. Many of your units rely on Spirit Damage, which all machines are immune to. In addition, your goblin troops often inflict Blight damage, which machines are *also* immune to.

One thing that helps is units with the Demolisher ability, such as Goblin Marauders, Dwarf Axemen and Goblin Big Beetles. Unfortunately, the low-tier versions are unlikely to survive a barrage of cannon balls and flames.

Defensive, it would really help if you managed to take over some of the Dwarven cities on the map, which would let you build Forge Priests and Firstborns, both of which are immune to fire and so would help a lot against Juggernauts and Flame Tanks, the most dangerous dreadnought units. (Though cannons will still hurt them.) Their fire attacks will also hurt machines a lot. (except flame tanks.) Unfortunately, these units are rather slow and have a harder time charging the machines.

Magically, the Wind Ward and Armageddon spells would help a lot, but frankly you're not going to have the time to research or cast those. Sundren might be able to learn Smokescreen, though; a cheap and effective spell that will greatly reduce the harm ranged attacks can do.

In general, though, Jacco is likely right that your problem is strategic rather than tactical. You need to attack fast on this map.

For one thing, it's notable that the human player in this mission is NOT a dreadnought, but a theocrat. The dreadnought is the Dwarf who is the first opponent you face. If you're still fighting dreadnought units when tier 3 artillery is in play, you definitely are on the back foot.

The strategic situation on the map is like this:

• You start in the swamp. There are a bunch of outposts here you can liberate, but these are too small to be of any use and you don't have time to grow them.
  There are, however, a lot of low-tier goblin troops that will join you. There is also a slightly bigger ruined city you can rebuild to the north.
  
• Around the middle of the map is a tight cluster of big Dwarf cities. There are three on the surface, and another one underground. The surface cities are surrounded by water and bridges. The access to these cities is a single mountain pass, but the AI isn't smart enough to use that as a chokepoint. You can also reach them by following the river shore to the south. You'll also find a single human city there.
  Controlling these cities is key to the map. Once you have them, you'll have enough resources to win any war of attrition against the humans.
  
• On the bottom left side of the map is the human capital, again consisting of a cluster of sizeable cities, as well as some settlements further north.
  There are two avenues of attack here: along the river to the north, or through the underground. The underground route is faster, but will also put you right in the middle of the enemy.
  
• The best way of winning this map is to take the central cluster of Dwarven cities as FAST as possible: Gather up all the goblins in the swamp, (this can be done in less than 10 turns) and throw them at the enemy immediately. With your 3 strong heroes in tow, you should have enough forces to win a few sieges.
  Even better: if you move up a bunch of stacks, chances are the Dwarves will abandon a few of their cities in order to more strongly defend the others. Which means free territory for you.
  Be sure to research Seafaring so you can surround the Dwarven cities that only have 1 bridge access point.

I hope that helps!

[LVmember]

Thank you very much for your advice.

[zirkustier]

Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:

In more general terms, facing a dreadnought with a theocrat can be tricky. Many of your units rely on Spirit Damage, which all machines are immune to. In addition, your goblin troops often inflict Blight damage, which machines are *also* immune to.

One thing that helps is units with the Demolisher ability, such as Goblin Marauders, Dwarf Axemen and Goblin Big Beetles. Unfortunately, the low-tier versions are unlikely to survive a barrage of cannon balls and flames.

Defensive, it would really help if you managed to take over some of the Dwarven cities on the map, which would let you build Forge Priests and Firstborns, both of which are immune to fire and so would help a lot against Juggernauts and Flame Tanks, the most dangerous dreadnought units. (Though cannons will still hurt them.) Their fire attacks will also hurt machines a lot. (except flame tanks.) Unfortunately, these units are rather slow and have a harder time charging the machines.

Magically, the Wind Ward and Armageddon spells would help a lot, but frankly you're not going to have the time to research or cast those. Sundren might be able to learn Smokescreen, though; a cheap and effective spell that will greatly reduce the harm ranged attacks can do.

In general, though, Jacco is likely right that your problem is strategic rather than tactical. You need to attack fast on this map.

For one thing, it's notable that the human player in this mission is NOT a dreadnought, but a theocrat. The dreadnought is the Dwarf who is the first opponent you face. If you're still fighting dreadnought units when tier 3 artillery is in play, you definitely are on the back foot.

The strategic situation on the map is like this:

• You start in the swamp. There are a bunch of outposts here you can liberate, but these are too small to be of any use and you don't have time to grow them.
  There are, however, a lot of low-tier goblin troops that will join you. There is also a slightly bigger ruined city you can rebuild to the north.
  
• Around the middle of the map is a tight cluster of big Dwarf cities. There are three on the surface, and another one underground. The surface cities are surrounded by water and bridges. The access to these cities is a single mountain pass, but the AI isn't smart enough to use that as a chokepoint. You can also reach them by following the river shore to the south. You'll also find a single human city there.
  Controlling these cities is key to the map. Once you have them, you'll have enough resources to win any war of attrition against the humans.
  
• On the bottom left side of the map is the human capital, again consisting of a cluster of sizeable cities, as well as some settlements further north.
  There are two avenues of attack here: along the river to the north, or through the underground. The underground route is faster, but will also put you right in the middle of the enemy.
  
• The best way of winning this map is to take the central cluster of Dwarven cities as FAST as possible: Gather up all the goblins in the swamp, (this can be done in less than 10 turns) and throw them at the enemy immediately. With your 3 strong heroes in tow, you should have enough forces to win a few sieges.
  Even better: if you move up a bunch of stacks, chances are the Dwarves will abandon a few of their cities in order to more strongly defend the others. Which means free territory for you.
  Be sure to research Seafaring so you can surround the Dwarven cities that only have 1 bridge access point.

I hope that helps!

Thanx for this!

[MrLuckless]

This seems like a general thing, but Age of Wonders campaigns are kind of unforgiving and don't encourage turtling or taking your time. The AI starts with way more then you do, so you have to be aggressive and get the ball rolling asap or else the mission just gets progressively more difficult. Basically, sucker punch the AI the moment you see them and the opportunity arises.

[zirkustier]

I can't do this mission. The opponents produce more than I can defend. I conquered the 3 dwarf cities on the island within the first turns. And the human city south of it. I made the underground dwarf city a vassal. Then it ends, because I have hardly any troops left and have to produce. At the same time, the attacks begin. For a while I can parry. Then they become more and more. And they become stronger. And I have no more troops, because they produce faster.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Huh. That surprises me. If you have those four Dwarf cities and the Goblin cities you have twice as many cities as the enemy does.

Now the human AI is at pretty high level even on normal difficulty, so they get decent income boosts. But you should still be able to match them at the very least.

Of course, then the question becomes how well you're doing in the battles. Maybe you're just losing too many units in the tactical battles?

The advice "just win more battles" doesn't sound particularly helpful, but it may actually be what you need. When the AI gets half again as much gold as you do, you need to have some kind of edge. And it's quite possible to outplay the AI in tactical battles. When I got to those cities my armies were probably less exhausted than yours.

Or maybe it took you too long to get those Dwarf cities? Time is also a factor.

Finally, I'd say that if you find the map frustrating, it's always an option to just start a random map or play a one-off scenario instead. The campaign focuses a lot on one specific playstyle (rushing, hero levelling) but the scenarios allow you to play the game much more freely.

[zirkustier]

I think I have it now. I took almost all the fighters I had and marched on the dwarf city to the northwest. My hope was that the human would not attack me in the meantime. On the way, the vassal city gave me an army. That was my luck. I conquered the dwarf city in a 50-50 fight.

Now I could attack the human and take a city (Jiffog) from him. I hope that was the trick.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

I expect it is. Good luck!

And vassals are pretty nice to have. If you're really in a pinch you can even demand tribute, and hopefully get an army. It'll hurt your relationship long-term, but if a big enemy army is coming for you and you have several vassals... needs must, when the devil drives.

[zirkustier]

I was curious. Today I loaded an old savegame, pressed "restart" and set the difficulty to easy. I was able to run effortlessly with my 3 heroes to the southwest of the map and conquer all cities on the way. Within a few minutes I had won.

This difference is enormous. On "normal" I had hardcore fights until the end and was very often outgunned, could only win with effort. I don't think I will ever play this mission on "hard". ^^

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

I suspect you would find Hard less hard than you think.

Knowing what the map looks like and knowing what kinds of enemies to expect makes a huge difference.

The other factor that makes a huge difference is in how strong your heroes are, how good their magic items are, etc. And if you reply the campaign, chances are you'll know which skills to pick and where to find magic stuff, so your heroes will be stronger too.

Or in other words: I found the campaigns much easier when I played them on Hard difficulty than when I played them on normal... simply because I had gotten better in the meantime.