Was fun while it lasted

[Zero]

So the enemy leveling... yea - what can I say - I'm weaker at lv32 than I was at lv1, bosses level with me. Why did I even bother to do quests, get some new gear and levels? So that enemies which are always at same level as me get new skills to kill me? Biggest turn-off for me was that even bosses level with you, so that if I have hard time killing boss, I will have hard with him also even when I'm 100 levels stronger, makes sense yea...
Too bad I liked this game a much, but since there's no point doing anything in game I need to find some other game. I guess this was worth 4€.

[MeisterGlanz]

I think the problem is not the game but your build and / or gear. If you have problems, look up a character build, there can be plenty builds found on darkmatters.org or the official forums.

[Zero]

You're missing the point - perhaps I should say - I'm as strong at level 100 as level 1 compared to enemies, so where is the advancement - what have I achieved?

[merchantmudcrab]

Enemies have a level cap per region so you can get stronger than them. http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Enemy_Levels

[MeisterGlanz]

Originally posted by ««-Zero-»»:

You're missing the point - perhaps I should say - I'm as strong at level 100 as level 1 compared to enemies, so where is the advancement - what have I achieved?

And I think you missed my point. With the right build you can easily overpower mobs and even bosses. Why do you pin advancement to an arbitrary level? It is not the point of Sacred 2 to outlevel mobs, it's about exploration in an open world, finding cool loot and optimize your character with it.

[kaay]

Originally posted by ««-Zero-»»:

You're missing the point - perhaps I should say - I'm as strong at level 100 as level 1 compared to enemies, so where is the advancement - what have I achieved?

Depends how you look at it.
Imagine you are lvl 100 and 90% of the game world is populated with mobs that pose no more challenge and dont drop anything useful for you anymore. Would that be fun?
As it is, you can still have fun and get good loot in a lot of areas you visited before.
Also, as other players already mentioned, you are constantly advancing your character with gear and skills and thats your achievement, not necessarily the leveling.
At first sight, the fact that mobs are leveling with you might seem unpleasant, but its not so bad at all.

[tekhedd]

You're both right! :) ...No, really. You're both right. I agree with everybody. I think that the game would be boring if mobs did not scale with you, but at the SAME time, I find it very frustrating that with one poor choice (or while shoring up some supporting skills that don't directly affect combat) I can suddenly find myself weaker than I was before I leveled up. Much weaker!

I think my favorite part is when I level up in the middle of a zone (or maybe on a zone border), where I'm too busy fighting to spend time distributing my new ability points, and as I work my way back to safety everything is spawning at my new level but I'm no more powerful than I was before. :}

Yeah, it's frustrating, but it's kinda how the world of Sacred works, so I go with it. It's not as annoying to me in this game as it it in other auto-leveling games, for some reason. But it's still annoying.

Auto-leveling does make it difficult to do concept builds--you always have to have a strong and balanced set of abilities, you can't just have fun and mess around. Unless you have time to grind until you hit the NPC level cap of each zone, I guess.

[kaay]

Originally posted by tekhedd:

You're both right! :) ...No, really. You're both right. I agree with everybody. I think that the game would be boring if mobs did not scale with you, but at the SAME time, I find it very frustrating that with one poor choice (or while shoring up some supporting skills that don't directly affect combat) I can suddenly find myself weaker than I was before I leveled up. Much weaker!

I think my favorite part is when I level up in the middle of a zone (or maybe on a zone border), where I'm too busy fighting to spend time distributing my new ability points, and as I work my way back to safety everything is spawning at my new level but I'm no more powerful than I was before. :}

Yeah, it's frustrating, but it's kinda how the world of Sacred works, so I go with it. It's not as annoying to me in this game as it it in other auto-leveling games, for some reason. But it's still annoying.

Good points.
Its really a give and take.
This system has advantages but also disadvantages, in the end the question is if the glass is half full or half empty.
I dont think there is right or wrong here, its all a matter of taste and perception.

[tekhedd]

Well, and I don't want to give the impression that I'm *anything* but hopelessly addicted. :) Everything addictive has a seed of annoyance somewhere in it, just like any good scam has a completely unbelievable obvious lie at its core.

[UABBlazers]

I agree that the issues must be in how you built the character. When I first started (on PS3) I felt that way about a TG I made. Then again, I had selected Blacksmithing which is useless on consoles and put lots of points into it. My second attempt went better though I focused too much on defense and made an unkillable character (literally could walk away while surrounded for 20 mins on the highest difficulty and return without taking damage). The learning curve is quite steed especially for some characters. However, you should get stronger relative to the enemy over time.

[Zero]

And I think you missed my point. With the right build you can easily overpower mobs and even bosses. Why do you pin advancement to an arbitrary level? It is not the point of Sacred 2 to outlevel mobs, it's about exploration in an open world, finding cool loot and optimize your character with it. [/quote]

Originally posted by UABBlazers:

I agree that the issues must be in how you built the character. When I first started (on PS3) I felt that way about a TG I made. Then again, I had selected Blacksmithing which is useless on consoles and put lots of points into it. My second attempt went better though I focused too much on defense and made an unkillable character (literally could walk away while surrounded for 20 mins on the highest difficulty and return without taking damage). The learning curve is quite steed especially for some characters. However, you should get stronger relative to the enemy over time.

Thx for teaching me, and what does my character, and btw way she is overpowered atm, got to do with the leveling system of the game? Or even this thread?

[UABBlazers]

So you said "I'm weaker at lv32 than I was at lv1" and then that you are "overpowered". Since that is a contradiction, I am leaning toward you just want to troll and complain now.

[gespenst]

So I have to ask... Why even have a level system? If you only want to maximize with build and gear then there is no need for a level system at all. Just have a point based improvement system that scales the enemies. My issue is that I like to build characters how "I" want them to be not for min maxing purposes. It kills a lot of the fun for me that games like this require you to follow some build or other rather than letting you play with non optimal characters. But then that is just my way of thinking.

[MeisterGlanz]

Originally posted by gespenst:

So I have to ask... Why even have a level system? If you only want to maximize with build and gear then there is no need for a level system at all. Just have a point based improvement system that scales the enemies. My issue is that I like to build characters how "I" want them to be not for min maxing purposes. It kills a lot of the fun for me that games like this require you to follow some build or other rather than letting you play with non optimal characters. But then that is just my way of thinking.

The level system or rather the passive skills you select are the foundation of your build. The system is open and flexible enough to develop your character into a direction that allows you to play a single character class in different ways. Take the Seraphim for example. You can play the Seraphim as a pure close combat fighter, a spell caster, a ranged character or a mixture of those. You can do this by selecting a certain set of skills and put points into them.

However, if you managed to choose your skills poorly, in a random order and with no goal in mind you will eventually hit a brick wall, regardless how good your equipment is. Without constitution and armor lore for example no build really works in higher difficulties, because your health will be too low without the percentual boost constitution grands and your armor absorption and combat art regeneration times will lack without armor lore. Now if you want to play a close combat fighter you will need not only those two skills but also at least a third defense skill. You also want to put more points into constitution than lets say in a ranged build.

You are free to experiment with different builds and skill orders and see for yourself what works and what doesn't. Or you can look up a build on the internet that was tested and approved by its creator. Many build creators also explain why they choose certain skills over others or give room for variations. That is why I give the advice to read a build guide, not necessary to follow it word by word, but instead to understand the game and its mechanics.

[tekhedd]

Essentially, the auto-leveling system creates a game that rewards... no, which *requires* constantly optimizing your build, and generally punishes experimentation. This isn't necessarily a *bad* thing, it's just what it is.

[kaay]

Originally posted by gespenst:

So I have to ask... Why even have a level system? If you only want to maximize with build and gear then there is no need for a level system at all. Just have a point based improvement system that scales the enemies. My issue is that I like to build characters how "I" want them to be not for min maxing purposes. It kills a lot of the fun for me that games like this require you to follow some build or other rather than letting you play with non optimal characters. But then that is just my way of thinking.

Sacred lets you win with non optimised and non min-max builds, dont worry about that.
On the other hand, if you make too many mistakes while building your character, at some point you will start having problems (talking about higher difficulty tiers here).
At this point you already have seen most of what the game has to offer (finished it on normal difficulty).
From now on you have the choice of quitting or starting to figure out how you can build your character better to deal with the challenges you have to face.
It all comes down to this in the end.
Perfect builds and min maxing are NOT necessary in this game even on higher difficulty tiers, so please dont worry about that.
There are several ways you can build your character to your liking and personal taste, and many of these ways will work, but that doesnt mean you can do whatever and still win....you still have to spend some effort to figure certain things out if you want to go in higher difficulty tiers.